Line requests and dedications

tpir90036 · #1 10-19-2005, 02:04 PM

OK, a disclaimer first, this was from a live 5/10 NL game... and these are some of the worst loose-passive players on earth. So the usual hand ranges for people go directly out the window.

I have $1200 and have roughly the same as everyone else in this hand.

4 limpers to me and I complete in the SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], BB checks.
Flop (6 players, $70): J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

What is the best way to protect my hand here?
- If I lead out people are peeling with any piece and I will have no idea where I am at on the turn.
- Check-raising might take it down immediately and might get a call from a weaker Jack or a straight draw but I don't really want to build a big pot with one pair OOP. I might as well be bluffing if I do that.
- Is check/calling horribly weak?

This is a very common situation and might not be very interesting but I never have any idea what to do here.

Action on further streets to come if there is interest.

Thanks in advance,
tpir

AZK · #2 10-19-2005, 02:26 PM

Make it $100 to go preflop.

Yeti · #3 10-19-2005, 02:28 PM

Bet $60.

fsuplayer · #4 10-19-2005, 02:29 PM

if worse jacks will call, then the answer is check/raise.

xorbie · #5 10-19-2005, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if worse jacks will call, then the answer is check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

mgsimpleton · #6 10-19-2005, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raising might take it down immediately and might get a call from a weaker Jack or a straight draw but I don't really want to build a big pot with one pair OOP. I might as well be bluffing if I do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you are wrong. Lapoker just wrote about this, how it is possible to win a whole stack with top pair top kicker in these live games, the people are justthat bad.

That being said, bet the pot or a little more. If you get a caller, bet 2/3 on turn and 1/2 on river. That's generally a good line to get a jack to call you down. Generally in these passive games using that line youcan chuck it at the slightest hint of aggression.

fsuplayer · #7 10-19-2005, 02:32 PM

leading for potish is ok too, but check calling blows.

mgsimpleton · #8 10-19-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if worse jacks will call, then the answer is check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree, i think you get too many folds from really weak jacks and obviously it keeps in all the better hands. plus now you really h ave no idea where you are and all your bets are massive.

by just betting out strong, worsejacks will definitely call but any aggression and you're gone (and they rarely bluff in these types of games, if it's anything like the one i played in all summer long). this line will save you money when you are up against a monster and while it won't maximize money against some donks' worse jacks i think the reward to risk ratio is higher for this line.

ML4L · #9 10-19-2005, 02:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if worse jacks will call, then the answer is check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree, i think you get too many folds from really weak jacks and obviously it keeps in all the better hands. plus now you really h ave no idea where you are and all your bets are massive.

by just betting out strong, worsejacks will definitely call but any aggression and you're gone (and they rarely bluff in these types of games, if it's anything like the one i played in all summer long). this line will save you money when you are up against a monster and while it won't maximize money against some donks' worse jacks i think the reward to risk ratio is higher for this line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fear the duck.

ML4L

fsuplayer · #10 10-19-2005, 03:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if worse jacks will call, then the answer is check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree, i think you get too many folds from really weak jacks and obviously it keeps in all the better hands. plus now you really h ave no idea where you are and all your bets are massive.

by just betting out strong, worsejacks will definitely call but any aggression and you're gone (and they rarely bluff in these types of games, if it's anything like the one i played in all summer long). this line will save you money when you are up against a monster and while it won't maximize money against some donks' worse jacks i think the reward to risk ratio is higher for this line.

[/ QUOTE ]

good post.

i misread the board, thought there were two diamonds and i would hate half the deck on the turn, but i still like your line better.

but.........I think though you are underestimating how often KJ and QJ call a CR here, esp. if they play anything like the passives at my home game.