Did I play this too fast?

[bigredlemon]

If I were to tell you that it was a fairly tight table (about 3 to a flop on average, including blinds) and the average pot is about 5xBB, does that change your answer? (This pot was about 450% larger)

[K C]

You might want to be more careful in calling PF raises with a hand like this. It's -EV overall, and the only way it makes sense at all is if there's a small number of people in the pot, and the raiser tends to raise a lot, without having a real rasing hand often times.

On the flop, that's the right way to play this. You've probably got the best hand right now and are drawing to the nuts.

On the turn, if the guy had a set of jacks, I would have expected him to probably raise the river instead of call. So he probably doesn't have this. He's probably got a pair of jacks though. You don't really want to get into a raising war here because you aren't going to get the odds on the extra bet or two.

On the river I would have re-raised. You're the clear favorite here, and anytime this is the case, it's almost always a good idea to stick it to them on the river.

KC
kingcobrapoker.com

[jaxUp]

don't worry that CO had JJ. It happens. a river 3-bet is still the right play here. And, A8s is not your optimal "raise in the BB" type hand, especially when it has already been raised and there are only 4 players.

[bigredlemon]

thanks for the advice... looks like i've got a lot to learn about limit.

[Niediam]

You could tell me that you had 10k hands on the villian and he only raises TT-AA and I'd still say you played the river too passively.

[Niediam]

I disagree with those of you who want to build a big pot on the flop by checkraising. Hero's hand is definatly strong (with a great redraw) but it still vulnerable to quite a few overcards and gutshots on the turn. The pot is fairly big as it was raised preflop with three callers... betting out is a better play as hopefully villian will raise which will knock out the other players.

[hate]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with those of you who want to build a big pot on the flop by checkraising. Hero's hand is definatly strong (with a great redraw) but it still vulnerable to quite a few overcards and gutshots on the turn. The pot is fairly big as it was raised preflop with three callers... betting out is a better play as hopefully villian will raise which will knock out the other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see this. Either we're building a pot for our 9 outs to fill our flush, or we're trying to protect our tptk. I know Shillx was talking about a similar play seeing a flush draw on the turn being +EV to raise on the turn to get HU for the river, but I don't like it on the flop. Big pot, I don't like the odds of us thinning down the field with a bet out more than I like building a pot for when we do hit our nut flush.

[davelin]

C/r the flop. C/c the turn. C/r the river.

[Niediam]

Is there a reason you dont think its possible to protect hero's hand? If he can't protect his hand then I'm all for building a huge pot but both SSH and TOP say that in a big pot you should try to knock out opponents to increase your winning chances as opposed to building the pto...

[hate]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a reason you dont think its possible to protect hero's hand? If he can't protect his hand then I'm all for building a huge pot but both SSH and TOP say that in a big pot you should try to knock out opponents to increase your winning chances as opposed to building the pto...

[/ QUOTE ]

I conceptually thought of protection betting and raises as a method of making it unprofitable for draws and the like to continue to pay into the pot on hands that you're likely winning, but unlikely to win the larger the pool of players. In this case though, you've got such a strong draw that I think building the pot for when you do pull it off outweighs whatever the odds you are of winning the pot UI.

I'm not arguing that it's not possible to protect this hand, but that you don't want to.