confused w/ TT

[C M Burns]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) 11 $ rebuy converter

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

I'm fairly new to the table and do not have much of a read on the oponent.
UTG+1 (t33977)
<font color="C00000">MP1 (t5736)</font>
MP2 (t16799)
MP3 (t14942)
<font color="C00000">Hero (t6375)</font>
Button (t8857)
SB (t19065)
BB (t5435)
UTG (t5670)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises to t800</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t2000</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls t1200.

Flop: (t4175) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">

So pre-flop I am a bit confused, both a call and fold seem weak but I'm not sure I want to go allin w/ tens yet. With the raise I was planning on folding to a reraise leaving me 10 bb's thinking he prob has queens or better. Then what is the best play on the flop?

[aLOWdAkING]

I say bet about 3/4 of the pot. Most likely won't have a Queen, could have AK, AJ, or lower pocket pair. A bet like this would really test him, because he is almost going to be pot committed to go all in if he calls. You should be able to take down this on the flop. If reraised, it will be a tough call, but he would probably have you beat unless you think he is the type of guy that check raises with Ace high or a low pair. If he just calls, theres a good chance he has less than you 10s, and I would push if a scary card didnt come. If it did, you'll have to evaluate the sitation.

Hope this helps!

[Pepsquad]

Hero's stack is now at t4300. The pot is 4400. If he's betting 3/4 of the pot, why not push? IMO - bet 1,500 and fold to the check-raise.

[zaxx19]

He simply reraised too much. A push is even better here than this reraise imho.


Why is a call too weak here??That being asked I probably reraise to 1k. After your 2000 raise -If he reraises all in preflop do you muck 33% of you chips away?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]The raise preflop was way too large IMHO. Most mistakes in NLH MTT are made by getting caught inbetween aggression and caution like this in my experience.

Once he calls there is like 4300 in the pot and you have like that much left so you are almost pot commited anyway now arent you?? I mean I guess a ACE is a muck but...JQK constitutes 25% of possible cards(actually a bit higher since you have 2 non face cards..) With the preflop raise you also dont really leave yourself with any wiggle room to make a probing bet on the flop correct?? I might even smooth call and see what the flop brings(a set with an ace or king could bring you his whole stack) most likely bet out with a non ace flop pretty strongly. I guess I might reraise 1k depending on the Villain, certainly not gonna reraise 1/3rd of my chips if there is a very good possibility I cant play a hand decisively on the flop. Hope this was helpful and I do recognize JJ or 10-10 are some of the hardest hands too play out there.

P.S. Oh and remember you have postion also in this hand thats an added bonus and makes it less dangerous to see a flop for you.

[jslag]

I would have just called preflop with no reads. Villain could easily have AK/AQ/QQ/JJ/99/88/etc. Some might smooth call you preflop with AA or KK, but I don't see that much in tournaments.

Given the way you played it, I might just bet 1000-1500 if it's checked to me. If I'm check-raised all-in, I will fold. But I don't necessarily like this play because if your opponent is smart, he may check-raise you because of such a small bet (1000-1500).

You can't really check behind safely because he could have four to the flush with hands like A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] -- However, this is an option. If the turn is a blank and he checks to you again, then you could bet it knowing he's probably weak. Then again, JJ might call you if you checked the flop and pushed the turn.

Lead out with a smaller bet... if he calls, see what happens on the turn.

I don't like a push on the flop, because you're only going to be called by hands that already have you beat.

[C M Burns]

So my main problem with calling pre-flop is that others will likley call too reducing the chance that I will flop the best hand most of the time i'd be playing for the set and I'm not getting the odds to do this. although I am starting to think this or just folding would be ok.

And my concern with raising less is that if I only raise to say 1600 he will call with anything, since it is as much to call as his initial bet, so i will learn almost nothing about his hand and not have a chance to take it down defeating much of the purpose of raising, although i may at least get it heads up.

And then the flop perhaps a 1600ish bet and folding to a raise is the best play it just seems weak, but to raise me he would basicly have to risk all his chips and would be a tough bluff.

So part of my thinking here was that my tournament play has been too tight-weak/passive that I wasn't taking the chances needed to win tournaments. But perhaps this situation is not the right spot for too much agression.

[kuro]

I take it the rebuy period is over?

TT is extremely hard to play. I would have just flat called here and taken a flop, because making a significant raise puts just too much of your stack in and then you simply are not going to have the chips to find out where you're at.

You figure that you're not up against aces or kings because they didn't reraise you pre-flop. You're probably not up against queens because there's a queen on the flop. So of the hands he might have you probably have to worry most about AQ,KQ,or JJ.

With the way you played it, I'd probably represent AQ here and push. I wouldn't be happy with it, but I'd really have a hard time with checking it and then folding to the bet that's almost sure to come on the turn.

[SossMan]

I would flat call preflop here almost every time if i didn't have a read. You have position on him. Of the three players behind you, you have position on two of them. You have a hand and a stack that would hate a reraise all in preflop. You keep the pot manageable on the flop in case it comes Q rag rag (familiar). did I mention position?

that being said, you now are in a real peach of a spot on this flop. he's going to check to you no matter what, so you can't really read that check as weakness. Statistically, you probably still have the best hand. There are a few hands that most players would play that way preflop that include a Queen (AQ,KQ,QJ). There are a ton of hands that he would play that way that you are beating (AK, underpairs, etc...)
I think an argument can be made for pushing, betting out 1000 and folding to a reraise, checking behind and folding unless you spike a set on the turn.
I would probably push, since you are likely ahead, but don't want to get bluffed off the turn. You really don't want him assuming his JJ is good on the turn, if he would have folded to a flop bet.

Your preflop reraise put you in a tough spot.

-sossman

[zaxx19]

You dont like a smooth call bc others might come in.( I dont buy that MOST of the time others will come in here. or necessarily they wouldnt if it was 2000 remember at that pont there are 2 other players with signifigant investments in the pot you are gonna need a BIG hand to play here) But you dont think if say 2 others came in you would have set or ragged flop odds?? Now Im confused bc if 3-4 see the flop I certainly think you do have set odds to call IF you add the times a ragged flop falls.

Also you dont like the reraise to 1600 bc it makes it an attractive call for him correct?? If your purpose is to win the pot right here with the best hand why not push?? Like I said before by reraising and placing 30% of your stack in arent you effectively potcommited if he comes over the top all in with you holding 10-10 here??

Upon further review this hand is simply a smooth call or a push and I much prefer a smooth call. Remember you have position thats worth a ton here.

[C M Burns]

thanks for the advice, I think I need to stop thinking of tt a a big pair. I've done this with my ring game play and it has helped. I thought my tounament game needed more agression but not here.

For the record on the flop my thinking went similar to Kuro's that there is a reasonable chance that I am ahead, but very vulnerable to free cards, and I might push him off jj, so I pushed. He calls w/ Q9s??? go figure. I am just going to pretend he had AQ and out played me.