Am I The Only One Who Lays Down This Hand???

PokerProdigy · #1 07-03-2005, 02:35 AM

Am I the only one who folds here on the turn? I felt like it was the right move to make, do you agree or disagree? And more importantly, please explain/justify your answer because I need to know how to handle these situations when they come up.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Even if a card lower than a ten that wasn't a club came on then turn, I probably still would have mucked this hand if he lead into me. What do you think about that play? And once again justify your answer.

irishpint · #2 07-03-2005, 02:53 AM

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Even if a card lower than a ten that wasn't a club came on then turn, I probably still would have mucked this hand if he lead into me. 

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why? youd have top pair on a board that isn't too scary.

about the fold, do you know anything about your villian? is he the type to c/r a flush and bet a J?

thesharpie · #3 07-03-2005, 02:56 AM

I usually call the flop and see what the turn brings. The only way you're folding someone with a raise is if SB 3 bets, and you're usually behind when that happens. You also don't have much of an equity edge here, push your larger edge on the turn if a favorable card falls.

The way you played it I also fold the turn. I wouldn't fold if a blank fell. Some people will lead 3 bet with top pair crappy kicker, or even worse. He could also have a flush draw, or a 2 pair which you have up to 8 outs against.

Aaron W. · #4 07-03-2005, 03:21 AM

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Am I the only one who folds here on the turn? I felt like it was the right move to make, do you agree or disagree? And more importantly, please explain/justify your answer because I need to know how to handle these situations when they come up.

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Here's a better idea. Explain/justify why you think this is a good fold with top pair and the second best kicker.

Nfinity · #5 07-03-2005, 05:14 AM

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Am I the only one who folds here on the turn?

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With a couple of good "real reads" on my opponents tendencies I might fold. With no reads I'm calling down and getting one.

I like the "Call flop, Raise a safe turn card" line here

PokerProdigy · #6 07-03-2005, 06:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who folds here on the turn? I felt like it was the right move to make, do you agree or disagree? And more importantly, please explain/justify your answer because I need to know how to handle these situations when they come up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a better idea. Explain/justify why you think this is a good fold with top pair and the second best kicker.

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I just felt like I needed to fold here since I have top pair (which is only a middle pair) and a king kicker. I just couldn't see him leading into me without too many hands that have me drawing to (atmost) 3 outs, such as a set, top pair with ace kicker, or maybe the flush. But the more I am thinking about this, the more I am starting to think that this is a TERRIBLE laydown, especially at such a low limit. I think part of my problem is that I have recently read Bob Ciaffone's book about beating middle limit holdem and he advises to often fold in these spots. Although it is a good book, I generally think that this is bad advice in these situations.

xenthebrain · #7 07-03-2005, 07:28 AM

Unless it's a maniacI would fold, too.

There are some people who 3-bet or cap the flop here on just a flushdraw, but the turncard is really bad for you if you weren't already behind.
He might have a flush, T8, JT, AT and is very agressive.
I think a fold is the correct play most times.

sholvar · #8 07-03-2005, 07:33 AM

MLH is a good book, but you are only able to use the information if you read "Small Stakes Holdem", too.
The first is a little too passive and the second a little too aggressive. With some experience you can find out, what tips of what book you can use in whick situation.

@this hand: have you PT or do you see this guy 3-bettin/cappin the flop often? If not, your fold was right IMO.
Many Players in micro limits bluff you, if it is a bluffsituation or not. But 3-bettin is most times no bluff.
So you can think about 2pair or better (even toppair with acekicker you will not often see 3-bettin, if it is no 2+2er). With your 3,5 outs against twopair and IMO not 1 full out against set you have no odds to call on the turn...

Yort Mada · #9 07-03-2005, 07:40 AM

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I usually call the flop and see what the turn brings. The only way you're folding someone with a raise is if SB 3 bets, and you're usually behind when that happens. You also don't have much of an equity edge here, push your larger edge on the turn if a favorable card falls.

The way you played it I also fold the turn. I wouldn't fold if a blank fell. Some people will lead 3 bet with top pair crappy kicker, or even worse. He could also have a flush draw, or a 2 pair which you have up to 8 outs against.

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TomBrooks · #10 07-04-2005, 05:55 PM

TURN: Ya, I fold also because I figure my five outs to trips or two pair are at best three outs and I may already be beaten by a flush. And even if there is no flush, my three outs may not be to the nuts.

Backing up on the..

FLOP: I don't like the three bet because thre are too many overcards that could come to top pair tens, there is a a possible flush draw on the board, and I am not making anyone face two bets here - everyone is going to call.