20/40 3handed - some turn questions, QTo

[Surfbullet]

Villain is 37/20/.6/42 over 96. Not too crazy postflop.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (3 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Surf is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Surf calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Surf checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Surf raises</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Surf bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>

Bonus Question A: What's my plan for most rivers?

Bonus Question B: What's the minimum hand needed for a calldown here vs this opponent?

Bonus Question C: What opponent types would you call this down against?

Please provide the why, not just the what. Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Surf

[stigmata]

A) With those stats plus your read, I give him credit for a hand that beats us, so I fold river UI. You are getting 10:1 on the river, so it's a nice size pot, but I just don't think you are winning it anywhere close to that often against this opponent.

B) I'm going to carry on trusting the read, and generally say we need top pair or strong mid pair depending on circumstances. Of course there are exceptions (big pot, we suspect he may have raised with a strong draw, etc.)

This could change with my table image. Even some passive players start taking shots at you if you keep folding the turn and river. If it happened on a couple of occasions I would begin to loosen my call-down requirements and start looking him up.

C) More aggressive opponents. I don't know where you draw the line, but I would want to have some idea from stats/read that he was capable of bluff/semi-bluff raising scare cards etc. This is probably the majority of opponents at 20/40 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] However, other factors such as table image come into play.

****
Sidenote related to point C:
Iv'e been playing some of these hyper-aggressive 20/40 short games recently. Generally, where possible, I have been trying to create an "un-bluffable" image. For example, if I think it is close between calling/folding, I will generally try and get to showdown, particularly early in a session, and when I have position (can get to SD cheaper etc.) Like most things in poker, I have had mixed results with this tactic. Certainly it has calmed some players down post-flop and made them easier to read / more honest.

So in the hand above, against an aggressive opponent, I would have odds to call turn, and by the river the pot is so bloated that I have to call, especially for meta-game considerations.

Anyway, was just interested in your input on these meta-game considerations? Is an "unbluffable" image really that useful?

I think this hand was against me, the river UI would be close, but probably a fold, against most people I think its a call down though. In other news I ran horribly at that table and prolly played bad too cause I wasnt paying enough attention.

[Surfbullet]

yeah, it was. I'm not sure if I would have folded the river UI or not - it's so hard to let a medium -strength holding go in that game.

Your play looked okay from my perspective...we didn't clash much though.

Surf

also, please don't disclose my screenname. Thanks. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I wont tell anyone yours, either [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this hand was against me, the river UI would be close, but probably a fold, against most people I think its a call down though. In other news I ran horribly at that table and prolly played bad too cause I wasnt paying enough attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

37/20/.6? are those your actual numbers? that is a really interesting and different style of play. im assuming you ran bad and the AF is way off?

Surf,

I think you have to call the turn and fold to a river bet UI.

c/c if a K hits.
c/c or donk (close [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]) if a Q hits.
c/r or donk if a J hits.
c/r if a T hits.

[ QUOTE ]
37/20/.6? are those your actual numbers? that is a really interesting and different style of play. im assuming you ran bad and the AF is way off?

[/ QUOTE ]

The third person in this game for most of the time was a massive donk every round type of fish, so I kinda was letting him bet himself to death with my low pair ace high type holdings and I think I literally never got even a middle pair against him to put some more bets in with. So yea the running bad would explain the AF, I think normally it would be 2ish or a lil less.