am i cheating?

[David]

I play in a dealers choice game sometimes that is kinda weird -$5 ante, limits $1-$20 on all streets. We usually always sit in the same seats every game. The guy that sits directly across from me always deals O8 when it is his turn. He deals out the pocket cards and then deals the board cards face down before any action. He turns the cards up at the appropriate time so the game plays the same. The problem is on many occassions he deals the board cards so high I see them. If I am not distracted I see at least 3 out of the 5 cards almost every time. Sometimes I know the whole board before a card is turned. I have told him many times (at the table where everyone can hear) that I saw cards. You know the funny part......they get annoyed at me and tell me to not look. I am NOT trying to look. They don't get annoyed at him for dealing poorly. Now, I just keep my mouth shut and play.

[deacsoft]

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the right thing to do is probably talk to the dealer about it (after his shift, away from the table).


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I like this approach.

[jakethebake]

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Its definate;y not cheating in bj
The dealer is a house employee and you are playing the house
Is it cheating when a dealer gives you bad advice? (which they usually, unintentionally are doing)

I think if you are playing against other people it is infact cheating such as in poker

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Funny the casinos take the opposite view. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Lottery Larry]

didn't that pertain to BJ?

[CORed]

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So, if this occured during the course of playing BlackJack, would it be cheating (assume it's single or double-deck).

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I remember reading in one of my Blackjack books that there was a case in Nevada where a casino caught a player taking advantage of a dealer who was flashing hole cards. The player was prosecuted for cheating and the judge dismissed the charge, ruling that it was the dealer's responsibility to protect the hole card and that the player was not violating the state cheating statutes by using the information. OTOH, I doubt that the player won enough at the blackjack table to pay his attorney's fees.

[Andy B]

I don't particularly have ethical problems with people using dealer carelessness against the house. I do have a problem with people using dealer carelessness against other players in a poker game. It isn't their fault that the dealer is giving this guy information. In the blackjack case, it is absolutely the house's fault that dealer is incompetent.

[spamuell]

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You're not doing anything the other players at the table can't also do.

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Yes, he is. He says he does it when "sitting in a seat in front of the dealer", at least implying and pretty much stating that what he is doing cannot be done from other seats.

[Malcom Reynolds]

Shuffle tracking in Blackjack isn't considered cheating, although casinos will bar you if they think you are counting cards or using anything to give you an edge. All of this stuff is not illegal in Nevada so long as you are not colluding with the dealer. A player may use any information at their disposal to make a decision.

In poker I think it's unethical/cheating to use this to your advantage, and should talk to the dealer/floor person discreetly about it.

[TripleH68]

Had an obviously new dealer in Detroit. I was in the 9 seat and the dealer was "rocking" the cards out of the deck. I could see quite a few as could anyone at my end of the table paying attention. I took a break from the table and mentioned it quietly to the room manager. He was appreciative and pulled the dealer from the table shortly thereafter. I am all for an advantage, but not like that.

[david050173]

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Isn't this the same kind of thing where Daniel Negreanu took the pot when it was given to him by the dealer and opponent even though it was supposed to be a split pot? Someone elses mistake gives you an advantage.

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Not similiar at all in that Danial had no information that the other player didn't have. The other player messed up by mucking his hand. The game is between the players and the dealer should have no effect on the outcome of the hand.