am i cheating?

[mostsmooth]

usually when im sitting in a seat in front of the dealer, i watch him and notice the bottom card(s) when he picks up and organizes the deck after the wash and before he starts his shuffle (theres not much else to do). last night i noticed a particular dealer that when he shuffled, the bottom card usually stayed on the bottom during the shuffle process (3 shuffles) and i could follow it toward the center of the deck after the cut. there were 3 or 4 occasions where this bottom card appeared on the board during that hand (holdem).
i realize this dealer has a flawed technique, but am i cheating or simply taking advantage? if i had a better talent for estimating the number of cards in the cut, i would have an even bigger advantage.
i also realize if anybody else knew i had a better than normal chance to know if a card was coming, theyd be mighty upset.

[KC50]

Being keen to noticing things is an imparative part of being a successful seasoned player. In this case (IMO) it would only be cheating if you and the dealer were in cahoots.

KC

[PseudoPserious]

That's not cheating, but the right thing to do is probably talk to the dealer about it (after his shift, away from the table).

PP

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
the right thing to do is probably talk to the dealer about it (after his shift, away from the table).


[/ QUOTE ]

I like this approach.

[Andy B]

You are using information to which you are not entitled against the other players in the game. That fits my definition of cheating, but others may disagree. Would you want it done to you?

You should either tell the dealer or a floor person about this. Away from the table.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
You are using information to which you are not entitled against the other players in the game. That fits my definition of cheating, but others may disagree. Would you want it done to you?

You should either tell the dealer or a floor person about this. Away from the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if this occured during the course of playing BlackJack, would it be cheating (assume it's single or double-deck).

[Thythe]

Long answer yes with an if, short answer no with a but.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
So, if this occured during the course of playing BlackJack, would it be cheating (assume it's single or double-deck).

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember reading in one of my Blackjack books that there was a case in Nevada where a casino caught a player taking advantage of a dealer who was flashing hole cards. The player was prosecuted for cheating and the judge dismissed the charge, ruling that it was the dealer's responsibility to protect the hole card and that the player was not violating the state cheating statutes by using the information. OTOH, I doubt that the player won enough at the blackjack table to pay his attorney's fees.

[Andy B]

I don't particularly have ethical problems with people using dealer carelessness against the house. I do have a problem with people using dealer carelessness against other players in a poker game. It isn't their fault that the dealer is giving this guy information. In the blackjack case, it is absolutely the house's fault that dealer is incompetent.

[Malcom Reynolds]

Shuffle tracking in Blackjack isn't considered cheating, although casinos will bar you if they think you are counting cards or using anything to give you an edge. All of this stuff is not illegal in Nevada so long as you are not colluding with the dealer. A player may use any information at their disposal to make a decision.

In poker I think it's unethical/cheating to use this to your advantage, and should talk to the dealer/floor person discreetly about it.