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  #21  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:11 AM
The Don The Don is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

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20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

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This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.

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True. The percentage of winning players above 20% is in the single digits in my estimation. Assuming we are talking about party of course. Much higher percentages are possiblee on the slow-structured Stars SNGs.
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  #22  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

AHHH,thank you for the insight copernicus. A little quick to judge on my part....
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  #23  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:35 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

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I dont know how your simulator takes into account the fishy play at low buy in SnGs, but I assure you, 20% ROI is not "crushing the game".

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The simulator does not take into account, anything about fishy play. It just shows the 40 buy-in downswings are going to happen to even the best sng player.

20% ROI is CRUSHING the game. This is agreed upon by all high volume players in the SNG forum. Show me anyone who has an ROI of 25%+ for a sample of over 3000 SNGs, and ill offically declare myself an idiot.
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  #24  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:38 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

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Perhaps you should read more, it looks like it might do you some good.

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Granted, I didn't read most of the replies to the OP. But following this bankroll plan and making fancy plays in the early rounds, is a sure way to go broke, fast. SNGs are meant to be played, weak-tight early, and agressivly late and like any form of poker, have a fairly high varaince.
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  #25  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:40 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

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This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.

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I guess that depends on what you define as "crushing the game" but I know 4 people including myself with an ROI of 20%+ for over a year, and mine is just over 30% for 15 months. I certainly don't think I'm an exceptional player overall, straightfoward HoH pretty much. However my shortstack and HU play is extremely good. If I'm close to the money I almost always make it, and if I get to HU, even with a substantial chip deficit, I win well more than my share.

Those are the two weakest areas of low buy in SnG players, and getting close to the money is a no brainer. If it werent for the occasional suck outs (which I define as a dominated hand after the flop) my ROI would be much higher, because those are the times I go out early.
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  #26  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:02 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

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He may have run well to hit the 33% but I have ranged from 20% to 40% ROI each month for 14 months of the last 15, with only one month at 10%.

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I think you have been running extremely well, depending on how many SNGs you play a month. Having 14 out of 15 months with a 20% ROI is abosultly amazing, and incredibly luckly. How many SNGs have you played over those 15 months? I also see that you 1-2 table, which i suppose its possible to have a 30% or so ROI at the 33s and under with "perfect play", but I still think that statiscally having 14 out of 15 months at 20%+ ROI is >1%.
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  #27  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:08 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

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[ QUOTE ]
He may have run well to hit the 33% but I have ranged from 20% to 40% ROI each month for 14 months of the last 15, with only one month at 10%.

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I think you have been running extremely well, depending on how many SNGs you play a month. Having 14 out of 15 months with a 20% ROI is abosultly amazing, and incredibly luckly. How many SNGs have you played over those 15 months? I also see that you 1-2 table, which i suppose its possible to have a 30% or so ROI at the 33s and under with "perfect play", but I still think that statiscally having 14 out of 15 months at 20%+ ROI is >1%.

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I play 150-200 a month depending on whats going on at work or if I'm playing live at a major event. (I spend a week at the WSOP, the WPF's at Foxwoods, and any large ones in AC. This year I hit the Bellagio for 4 days of the 5 Diamonds as well.) In those ROIs are only 30s and 50s. I play an occasional 100, but those results are much lower, which is why I dont play many of them. That may just be variance too, but I at least perceive the quality of play to be higher in the 100s.

My live SnG/satellite results are similar to online, though my records arent as complete, and of course, there are far fewer of them.
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  #28  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:06 AM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

these were on pokerstars too.. aren't considerably higher roi's possible on stars w/ their better structure and longer tournaments.
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  #29  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:01 PM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

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these were on pokerstars too.. aren't considerably higher roi's possible on stars w/ their better structure and longer tournaments.

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They are primarily Stars and Doyles Room early on, migrating toward PokerRoom/FCP the last few months. I went there bonus whoring and the play is so weak I havent left.

Multis I still like Doyles Room the best.
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  #30  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:55 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know how your simulator takes into account the fishy play at low buy in SnGs, but I assure you, 20% ROI is not "crushing the game".

[/ QUOTE ]

The simulator does not take into account, anything about fishy play. It just shows the 40 buy-in downswings are going to happen to even the best sng player.

20% ROI is CRUSHING the game. This is agreed upon by all high volume players in the SNG forum. Show me anyone who has an ROI of 25%+ for a sample of over 3000 SNGs, and ill offically declare myself an idiot.

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Well, unless I go on a very bad run, prepare to declare yourself an idiot. I will have over 3000 SnGs in my data base by March or April, and since Im sitting at over 30% have a bit of cushion to drop to 25%.

If your simulator cant take into account differences in quality of play..ie its a basically a random number tracker, its worthless. What does a "40 buy-in downswing" mean? Groups of 40 that show no profit? I suppose thats not out of the question, and Ive never broken my results that way, but doubt that Ive got any near that length that show 0 or negative results.
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