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  #11  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:36 PM
REL18 REL18 is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

Maybe u missing what people are writting but i guess you are ok with going broke
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2005, 09:16 PM
mikeymer mikeymer is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

bad. bad bad bad.
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2005, 10:32 PM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
Yo, I just read that article, and that guy doesn't know his elbow from his [censored]. A 35% ROI at the 22s is impossible longterm. That dude hit a monster heater (if he is even telling the truth) and is telling everyone how to screw them selves.

[/ QUOTE ]

He may have run well to hit the 33% but I have ranged from 20% to 40% ROI each month for 14 months of the last 15, with only one month at 10%. My average is just over 35%. I play $30s and $50s. However, I can't play more than 2 at a time to keep that return up. If I even go to 3 my ROI drops..probably to the teens or lower. I don't do it often so the number itself isnt statistically significant, but I know my game deteriorates if I go above 2.
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2005, 10:48 PM
stevepa stevepa is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]

But now I realize that the fewer showdowns I see, the better, and if I have the position and chips to take it down or force a surrender before it gets to that point, I have guaranteed myself a stack of chips - and doing this fairly regularly not only gets you a lot of free steals, but makes a re-raise easier to read and get out of the way on.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I replied to one of your other posts where you said this but I still feel like you're misunderstanding something here. You're not guaranteed anything. Those raises have a certain probability of winning the pot, just like you have a certain chance of winning an all-in preflop. Especially online, where it's difficult to have very reliable reads, there is no "guaranteed stack of chips". I'm not saying you shouldn't be making those raises, obviously if they're +EV you should. But you should be pushing (basically) every edge, whether it's a bluff raise, a value raise, or an all-in preflop coinflip with some dead money. It doesn't matter, they're really all the same in the end.

Steve
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  #15  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:01 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

This is one of the wrost theards, maybe the wrost, I've ever read on 2+2. Anyone who has ever ran a montecarlo simulator on SNGs knows that even for a SNG player with a 20% ROI (WHICH IS ABOSULTLY CRUSHING THE GAME), no sng player has over a 20% longterm ROI, a 40 buy-in downswing is common. Also the fancy no-showdown plays you are describing are extactly the way NOT to play at SNGs, espically at the long limits, and id surpised if its possible to beat the game playing that way.
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  #16  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:05 AM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of the wrost theards, maybe the wrost, I've ever read on 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you should read more, it looks like it might do you some good.
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  #17  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

Here is proof this dude doesn't know crap about SNG poker (if his small sample and HORRIBLE bankroll advice weren't enough)....

"Keeping track of every SNG played - I used SNG tracker. It keeps track of your ROI (return on investment), ITM (in the money), graphs of where you placed, etc etc. I started keeping track at $20 SNGs and these are my overview results.

ROI 35%
ITM 54%
Tourneys 79
Buyins $3560
Vig (rake) $354
Total entries $3914
Prizes $5294
Profit $1380
Avg. Time 54 mins
$/tourney $17.47
$/hour $19.56
Itm from bubble 82%
Bubble % 7%
1st place - 19%
2nd place - 15%
3rd place - 21%
4th place - 13%
5th place - 13%
6th place - 7%
7th place - 12%
8th and 9th place - 4%"

How can you have a 35% ROI and $17.47/tourney at the $22's.
35% ROI = $7.7/tourney @ the $22's. Maybe he means gross winnings per tournament. But then he would be a loser! That is certainly not how I calculate my winnings. That said, he seems to be a good MTT player, i remember seeing him on the PS TLB many times.
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  #18  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:37 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
Here is proof this dude doesn't know crap about SNG poker (if his small sample and HORRIBLE bankroll advice weren't enough)....

"Keeping track of every SNG played - I used SNG tracker. It keeps track of your ROI (return on investment), ITM (in the money), graphs of where you placed, etc etc. I started keeping track at $20 SNGs and these are my overview results.

ROI 35%
ITM 54%
Tourneys 79
Buyins $3560
Vig (rake) $354
Total entries $3914
Prizes $5294
Profit $1380
Avg. Time 54 mins
$/tourney $17.47
$/hour $19.56
Itm from bubble 82%
Bubble % 7%
1st place - 19%
2nd place - 15%
3rd place - 21%
4th place - 13%
5th place - 13%
6th place - 7%
7th place - 12%
8th and 9th place - 4%"

How can you have a 35% ROI and $17.47/tourney at the $22's.
35% ROI = $7.7/tourney @ the $22's. Maybe he means gross winnings per tournament. But then he would be a loser! That is certainly not how I calculate my winnings. That said, he seems to be a good MTT player, i remember seeing him on the PS TLB many times.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not all $20 sngs in his stats. The average buyin is $49 with vig for 79 tourneys. The ROI calculation is correct. When he says "started keeping track at $20 SNGS" he must mean that is the level he started tracking at.
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  #19  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:44 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,018
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of the wrost theards, maybe the wrost, I've ever read on 2+2. Anyone who has ever ran a montecarlo simulator on SNGs knows that even for a SNG player with a 20% ROI (WHICH IS ABOSULTLY CRUSHING THE GAME), no sng player has over a 20% longterm ROI, a 40 buy-in downswing is common. Also the fancy no-showdown plays you are describing are extactly the way NOT to play at SNGs, espically at the long limits, and id surpised if its possible to beat the game playing that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know how your simulator takes into account the fishy play at low buy in SnGs, but I assure you, 20% ROI is not "crushing the game".
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  #20  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:50 AM
applejuicekid applejuicekid is offline
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Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 69
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.
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