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#1
04-03-2005, 03:04 PM
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Religion-Psychology?
Wanted to clear up some misconceptions about why I posted about religion and why I posted about it on this forum.
First of all it has no bearing on me personally. I'm not examining my own mortality or anything like that. Actually it all started when someone asked why poker players tended not to be religious. I answered that it was because being religious was not compatible with the clear thinking that pokers players need to use. Lo and behold I got a lot of responses from apparently clear thinking people who were also religious. And at this point it was obvious to me that there must be psychological issues involved. It made me wonder if I could figure them out. And to what legnths people would go to deny strong arguments against them. Clearly a subject for the Psychology forum. To believe that there is some sort of God out there does not mean you are either stupid or crazy. But as you start getting more specific, things change. It would be different if there was only one major religion. But as it stands if you believe specific facts (eg Mary was a virgin, Mohammed talked to Allah, dinosaurs walked with man, etc) you are disagreeing with the majority of people smarter than you who are not only atheists or agnostics, but also members of some other religion. In other words if you are the five millionth smartest person on the planet, at least four million of those smarter than you believe different from you on these specific issues. (80% of those dumber than you also believe differently but you could argue that doesn't matter). In light of the above what does it say, psychologically about yourself if you are still sure you are right? If you are not sure, that's different. If you believe that your SPECIFIC religious beliefs are an underdog to be true but you merely HOPE they are, I have no problem with that. It's even somewhat rational to believe that that your religious beliefs are the most likely from among many to be true. As long as you understand that you are less than 50% to be right. But if you truly believe, not just hope, that your specific beliefs are more than 50% you have a psychological problem. It's worse if you truly believe the probability is at or near 100%. (I understand that we run into a problem here because most religions don't consider anything less than complete faith acceptable. So some who have doubts won't admit them) Worse even yet are those who not only believe with certainty in their religion but also think that others should clearly want to convert. Those people not only have an irrational belief, they also have an irrational opinion that the OBJECTIVE evidence for their religion is stronger than the evidence for all other religions, agnosticism or atheism, combined. As I've said before this is akin to those stroke victims who will not believe they are paralyzed and are astonished others believe differently. So to reiterate, I never actually was interested in debating religion per se. I was only interested in trying to figure out what makes people who believe this stuff tick. 
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#2
04-03-2005, 03:49 PM
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Re: Religion-Psychology?
makes sense to me :O
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#5
04-03-2005, 04:10 PM
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Re: Religion-Psychology?
thats because clear thinking and truth has much to do with your theology. and why Ultimate truth is such a logistically rocky road. Also why religious beliefs are so diverse. read this study:
http://www.cresourcei.org/freedom.html God’s Foreknowledge, Predestination, and Human Freedom
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#6
04-03-2005, 04:13 PM
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Re: Religion-Psychology?
It really isn't religion, per se, that's "polluting" your world. It's the control freaks who use religion as an excuse for authoritarian activities. In that respect, I'd add that there are many secular control freaks out there who also favor authoritarian pollution.
I know many libertarians whom are deeply religious and would never think of imposing their life outlook on others.
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#7
04-03-2005, 05:59 PM
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Re: Religion-Psychology?
Hi David,
Interesting post. I will have to disagree with many of your assertions. Here are some of my thoughts in regards to your post. [ QUOTE ] To believe that there is some sort of God out there does not mean you are either stupid or crazy. But as you start getting more specific, things change. It would be different if there was only one major religion. But as it stands if you believe specific facts (eg Mary was a virgin, Mohammed talked to Allah, dinosaurs walked with man, etc) you are disagreeing with the majority of people smarter than you who are not only atheists or agnostics, but also members of some other religion. In other words if you are the five millionth smartest person on the planet, at least four million of those smarter than you believe different from you on these specific issues. (80% of those dumber than you also believe differently but you could argue that doesn't matter). [/ QUOTE ] The number of relgions does not have an impact on whether an individual religion is correct. One can argue that there are an infinite number of religions or possible religions. Adding more religions does not remove the likelihood that a previous religion is correct. The truthfulness of a belief is independent from those that believe in them. Just because someone intelligent does not believe in it or just because someone unintelligent believes in it does not make a belief right or wrong. Also, the correctness of a belief is independent from the number or percentage of believers. just because almost everyoe holds a certain belief does not make it right. Is linking a belief with those that believe in it sort of like being results oriented? [ QUOTE ] ...As long as you understand that you are less than 50% to be right. But if you truly believe, not just hope, that your specific beliefs are more than 50% you have a psychological problem. It's worse if you truly believe the probability is at or near 100%. [/ QUOTE ] How did you come up with this theory? Since the statement deals with religion, would you classify it as a religious belief? Also, what probability would you assign to the statement for it being correct? afterall it is just a belief and not proven fact. [ QUOTE ] Worse even yet are those who not only believe with certainty in their religion but also think that others should clearly want to convert. Those people not only have an irrational belief, they also have an irrational opinion that the OBJECTIVE evidence for their religion is stronger than the evidence for all other religions, agnosticism or atheism, combined. As I've said before this is akin to those stroke victims who will not believe they are paralyzed and are astonished others believe differently. [/ QUOTE ] You are assuming that any objective evidence for a particular religion cannot be significantly stronger than those for other religions and therefore those that believe in the religion are irrational. This is a bold assertion that I do not think people can simply assume to be true unless at least some analysis of the evidence has been done. [ QUOTE ] So to reiterate, I never actually was interested in debating religion per se. I was only interested in trying to figure out what makes people who believe this stuff tick. [/ QUOTE ] I am surprised that you wrapped your posts with the assertion that you only posted these messages to try to figure out why religious people have the beliefs that they do or 'what makes them tick'. I think it is clear from the body of this post that in addition to trying to figure out how religious people think that you are also trying to argue why people that subscribe to certain religious beliefs are irrational and that those beliefs are improbable. I am eager to hear your thoughts on this post. good luck in poker, Frank [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#8
04-03-2005, 06:18 PM
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Hello,David!@ Unless U have a vast amount of knowledge...
about religious topics,theology,biblical studies,archeological studies,history,Etc., your religious ideas ,in my opinion,have very LITTLE WEIGHT. HOWEVER, any poker advice by U would certainly be VERY SIGNIFICENT and a poker player would be a fool NOT to adhere to your ideas relating to poker.
HappyPokering, [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]SittingBull
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#9
04-03-2005, 06:32 PM
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Re: Religion-Psychology?
You seem to be concerned about the truth or not of religion. I suggest you do this:
Determine the people who belong to the highest 10% IQ in the world. Take a poll of those people. Go with the majority. Had you done this at various times in history you would have believed the earth is flat, is the center of the universe, the sun revolves around the earth, Greek mythology is true, and any number of other fantasies and false "scientific" theories. But, hey, this is the 21st century, and the smartest people today can't be wrong. Can they?
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