Spewing or calculated aggression?

J. Stew · #1 10-07-2005, 02:48 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
5 folds, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, CO calls.

If I check the flop and CO bets, I don't have the odds to chase in this small pot. If I bet the flop there is a decent chance they will both fold (CO posted) and I've got outs of course.

Turn: (2.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

There's two scary cards if he has a small/mid pair and I'm playing like I have some piece so there is a chance he peeled and will fold. He may be drawing too so I bet.

River: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO . . . (I'm not telling)

The only way I can win this hand is to bluff at it. I'm HU and he has just called the whole way. If he had an Ace wouldn't he have raised the flop. If he caught a K on the turn fine. If he was drawing without the odds to a flush he didn't make it. Would he really call down with bottom pair on the flop?

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

I think I overplayed this hand, but the part I am confused about is that these situations, where you flop a draw in a shorthanded limped/checked pot, come up somewhat often and I find myself folding frequently or everytime to C/O's auto-bet when it's checked to him. Is this just the luxury that C/O has here with position and there is no move worth making in this spot? Or does anyone make a play here? Thanks. Look at my boobs.

milesdyson · #2 10-07-2005, 02:49 PM

i gave this up when i got called by Q high on the river.

jrz1972 · #3 10-07-2005, 02:52 PM

I want a read on villain before adopting this line. I would never play this way against a loose player who likes to go to showdown with bottom pair, but against a tighter CO this isn't unreasonable at all.

Basically, you are hoping villain had a flush draw and will now fold having missed it. You need villain to be somewhat tight for his range of hands to be narrow enough for this play to work. If villain were a fish, note that his range is extremely broad: flush draws, straight draws, an A, a K, a 9, an 8, a pocket underpair, etc. All of those hands except one will call the river.

J. Stew · #4 10-07-2005, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i gave this up when i got called by Q high on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

#5 10-07-2005, 03:07 PM

A few things:

1. You say you're not telling what the villain did, but including the final pot size kind of gives it away.

2. I make this play all the time, and I don't like it. I think the key is to look at the logic backwards. On the river, your only shot to win is by bluffing, so a bluff is probably correct. That means when you bet on the turn, you're really committing two bets to the pot, not one. So in a sense, you're only getting 3.5:2 odds on your bluff (counting the opponent's turn call). Is that really good enough here?

3. I agree that reads would make this decision much easier. I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that without reads, I like this a lot better when I'm in position than when I'm out of position.

RiverDood · #6 10-07-2005, 05:00 PM

Anyone else wanna fold preflop?

I don't like our position . . . I'm not wild about the hand . . . and 3-way seems like the worst way to play it. We won't get paid enough if our straight/flush draws hit, and if it's just a matter of high-card value or pairs, we're not exactly the Big Dog going into the flop.

Fold and wait for something better.

lautzutao · #7 10-07-2005, 05:03 PM

spewing. maybe bet the flop, but then give it up and either chase your draw or fold.

#8 10-07-2005, 05:07 PM

I don't mind it but I'd really like a read on CO. He has either a draw or a weakish made hand. If you check to him on the turn and river, he is likely betting either of them. This way you put in the same number of bets on the flop and turn, but have the luxury of bluffing him out on the river if he missed his draw (which potentially beats your draw). I like it better if villian is weak-tightish, and don't like it if he's loose calling station.

J. Stew · #9 10-07-2005, 05:28 PM

He called and had 86o, mhing . . .

So the consensus seems to be that this is a play that is read dependent and works best against weak tighties. Miles says he doens't mess around with this situation, and Lau says maybe bet the flop but slow down after you get called. I think I will use this play only when I have a read that villain is weak tight. Thanks.