AA and KK are my biggest losers at Stars 100NL

Proofrock · #1 12-01-2005, 02:48 AM

over an extremely small (1.5k) sample size. I have decided I will post all significant AA/KK hands I play on this site for the next 1k hands or so, withholding whether they were winners or losers.

I'm having an argument right now with another 2+2er -- is it better to call or fold to the minraise on the river? No strong read on Villain -- only played about 60 hands together, and in that time he is 38/0, with a postflop aggression of about 1.5.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP1 ($115.50)
MP2 ($86.85)
MP3 ($98.50)
CO ($11.35)
Button ($94.95)
SB ($291.95)
BB ($102.80)
Hero ($150.05)
UTG+1 ($95.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP2 calls $4, 4 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, MP2 calls $8, BB folds.

Turn: ($28.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $10, MP2 calls $10.

River: ($48.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $20, MP2 raises to $40, Hero calls $20.

Final Pot: $128.50

stu-unger · #2 12-01-2005, 02:58 AM

was the less than 1/2 pot supposed to be a blocker?

Bukem_ · #3 12-01-2005, 03:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
was the less than 1/2 pot supposed to be a blocker?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was an ugly look MR. I don't have a flush, but my hand is real good and stuff, please go away now, or look me up with a worse hand, OK?

Proofrock · #4 12-01-2005, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It was an ugly look MR. I don't have a flush, but my hand is real good and stuff, please go away now, or look me up with a worse hand, OK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, other suggestions for playing the hand? Pot flop, 2/3 pot turn, 1/2 pot river, fold to a raise on any street? If so, why is my line much worse than that? If anything, I would think the turn is where you should direct the question -- I bet only 1/3 pot there.

If I know the player to be aggressive and attentive, then this line sucks. However, this player is pretty loose and passive from what I've gathered. I don't expect him to play back at me without a hand, but I don't want to get too invested with an overpair on such a coordinated paired board.

How would you play it?

stu-unger · #5 12-01-2005, 03:27 AM

w/o a read i c/c turn, and c/f river...

Bukem_ · #6 12-01-2005, 03:36 AM

Bet like you mean it or check the turn, depending on what you have seen of this guy.

Your turn bet is very obvious to any guy who has you beat/has the non nut flush, but wants to make someone money off you/make it to showdown.

I really can't think of any spot where 1/3 pot bet on the turn is optimal.

#7 12-01-2005, 03:55 AM

Overbet the flop and play cautiously if called. Like, $15 or $20. Ideally you want to take the pot right there. You have two pre-flop callers who could have anything and this flop could definitely have helped them. With what types of hands do people call early position raises with in position? Usually small pairs and suited connecting cards (or a suited ace). Here, any pocket pair of eights, sevens, or fives has outdrawn you as would 7-8 suited. A pair of sixes would now have an open-ended straight draw. With big pairs in EP you generally want to either get all the money in heads up pre-flop or, in your case here, you make a large bet on the flop, if you're called, you try to check it down from there because your opponent has probably outdrawn you. That's why position is everything. He probably knows you have a big pair, but you have no clue as to what he has. It can be tough to play the big pairs in EP in NL unless you get a great flop.

4_2_it · #8 12-01-2005, 10:05 AM

Your weak turn and river bets invited this. Who knows if he has you beat or not. You sure disguised your hand well. I could see a thinking villain making this move with a flush, A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or anything in between. As played you probably have to puke and call (or is it call and puke).

Bet the turn hard, if you get called check/call1/2 pot or less river bet. If you get raised, fold. You want a cheap showdown (which is what I think you were attempting to accomplish), but you played this hand like a donk who just got dealt AK after watching 10 hours of the WSOP.

djoyce003 · #9 12-01-2005, 10:24 AM

I'm either checking the turn, or making a real bet...this 1/3 pot bet is real bad IMO.

When i've got KK UTG i'll limp reraise with it generally or i'll make a bigger opening raise to try to fold out trash hands.

fuzzbox · #10 12-01-2005, 10:35 AM

Fold the river, and dont bet it and then fold ... check and then fold.

The flush is there, full house is there, and a straight is there. You beat none of that. In fact, your bets make it pretty clear that you dont beat anything, yet you still call the minraise.

If AA and KK are your biggest losers then just push all-in preflop ... you wont fail to make more money that you currently are ... and you might be surprised at the results