SnG Hand, ever fold here to get ITM? (LC)

[wiseheart]

Okay, 9 Person SnG top 3 ITM, UTG is a
CRAZY LAG, he double me up on an hand
where he went all in with J555, postflop
on a flop of like a78. No joke. Anyways,
BB is the short stack, with like 900
chips, SB has about 2.5k, Im at 3.6k, and
UTG has about 6k.

I call PF, hoping that one of us will take out
the short stack. Maybe this is my mistake, and
I should of just folded this hand PF.

PokerStars (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of 100.
UTG calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

UTG bets 200 here, I call looking for a call from
the BB, otherwise I would of folded.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Okay, got Kings over, so this would seem like a
nobrainer. But BB has only 700 chips left after this
and Im still at about 3.2k, when UTG makes a huge bet
here, is there anyway you can fold, just in case he
has a monster?

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls 1661 (All-In).

Again, here, anyway you would fold just in case here,
just in case this guy has a supermonster?

Final Pot:

[Buzz]

Wiseheart - I wouldn't play that particular starting hand. Not even from the button. It just doesn't connect quite often enough. You'll only connect well or reasonably well with about one out of every seven flops - and when you don't connect, you'll still have a pair of kings which can be very tempting to over-play. Thus I'd fold it on the first betting round.

Then on the second betting round, you have a tough choice. You don't really have a connection with the flop but if nobody has an eight, you're looking very strong. However, UTG bets. I'd be wondering if UTG happens to have an eight (which would put you way, way behind). If you call, you're chasing, which is not good. But you hate to weakly fold and you hate to raise, just in case you're raising into trip eights. And that's the problem with seeing the flop with the hand to begin with. It's easy to get into trouble.

Anyway, you call and then hit your miracle card on the turn. I'd go all-in here.

[ QUOTE ]
Im still at about 3.2k, when UTG makes a huge bet here, is there anyway you can fold, just in case he has a monster?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're the one who has the monster! Well... I suppose Villain could have quad eights or a full house with a straight flush draw. Nonetheless, I think your play is to raise all-in.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, here, anyway you would fold just in case here, just in case this guy has a supermonster?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes! That river card is very scary! Now Villain could have quad eights or a straight flush!

I think I see it coming. Looks to me like you're posting because Villain made a straight flush on the river (or had quad eights all along).

But to answer your question, no. Folding here is terrible. Villain could be betting this way with all kinds of hands you could beat - and there are just the two sensational hands (quads or a straight flush) that beat you.

Sometimes you have to play with courage. Regardless of the results, I think this is one of those times.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[se2schul]

What are the blinds currently at? As the blinds get bigger, your cards matter less. What is the buyin, $33 ??

Typical bubble theory for SNGs would suggest you stay away from the big stack with marginal hands like this one, but against the 2 smaller stacks you should turn into a pushbot and pot it with a wide range of hands to steal their blinds. This, of course, greatly depends on the blind size, which we don't know (Sklansky's GAP concept)

Even without all the info I'm leaning towards folding this one.

BTW, if the blinds are big and if UTG is a decent player, he'll be raising with any 4 and you'll be incorrect to call him even with better hands than he is holding. Remeber, in SNGs ChipEV is not equal to $$EV.

I agree with buzz, u play this hand poorly from pre and post flop and then get very lucky to hit ur card, there is no way ur folding here. It seems that the blinds are 50/100 since ur calling 100 preflop, so i dont see how ur taking out the small stack here. Let the UTG deal with the insanity and taking out that person if need be. Risk v reward is not worth it

[wiseheart]

Buzz and others, Thanks for the comments.

I agree that Preflop it should be a fold. But
I think some of you missed my point, Im on the
button with 3.4k chips, and the short stack is
big blind (Blinds were 100/200 I think) he had
900 chips Preflop, leaving him 700 postflop.

I know UTG is calling with any 4, so I dont want
to push, because he will call, and BB will fold.
Im just trying to get BB calling with a hand where
he is stuck in the middle.

On the turn, Im calling the 200 bet from UTG, because
BB is still left to act behind me, and will possibly
call with bad cards (he has shown down some mediocre
hands, which is why he is the short stack anyways)

In retrospect, I probably keep folding hands like
this preflop and hope that Big stack takes out the
Short stack (but Short stack has survived like 5
allins, because Big Stack is a LAG)
Anyways, the result was that UTG had quad 8's on
the flop. So, Im out 4th. This was a $15 SnG, so no
big deal, but if Im in the $33, then this would
probably upset me for not just waiting for the
Big Stack to take the others out and make it Headsup.

[jcx]

Pre-flop choices aside, all my money's going into the middle when the turn K hits 100% of the time. Are you content to occasionally squeak into the money, or do you want to win? Your opponent could have AA, 10's full, a single 8, a flush draw or nothing at all. This is a dream scenario. Sorry you lost, but don't ever doubt getting all in was the right decision.