Retarded Hand 30/60 PS

theBruiser500 · #1 06-08-2005, 04:36 PM

My plan was to value bet both of them, and if MP2 raises turn then fold. Should I fold when UTG raises though, it's kind of fishy that he limps there (AT AJ A9s?) and plays like this.

PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, 5 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

tomahawk · #2 06-08-2005, 04:48 PM

I don't think you can fold this. It looks like one out of three things. AA that didn't want to limp-cap for deception purposes, a loose 33 UTG limp, or Axs (possibly ATo and AJo also, as you mentioned.

I think the chance of it being the latter is too big to fold this hand. You only have to be good about one in five, spend the 2 BBs and look him up.

theBruiser500 · #3 06-08-2005, 11:07 PM

...

Jeff W · #4 06-09-2005, 12:28 AM

I don't like your turn plan. Isn't a stars 30/60 player capable of raising you w/ a middle pair for a free showdown?

If you are unsure of the strength of your kicker, I prefer to call the turn and bet the river.

You should not fold to UTG's turn raise/river bet. He hasn't shown enough strength to convince you that he has AQ+.

theBruiser500 · #5 06-09-2005, 12:32 AM

He hasn't shown enough strength to convince me of AQ+ really?? 3 bets me preflop, bets flop, 2 opponents, ace hits (soething me or other guy could easily have) and he raises me on the turn. looks quite strong. as to your "call turn and bet river", i think he will check behind on the turn a lot and i lose value

Jeff W · #6 06-09-2005, 12:36 AM

I'm confused. The pre flop 3-better folded the turn.

Jeff W · #7 06-09-2005, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
as to your "call turn and bet river", i think he will check behind on the turn a lot and i lose value

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're talking about MP2, then I am not worried about him checking behind. If he has a middle pair, I expect him to bet it very often. If he checks behind on the turn, he will often pay off a river bet. If he has something like KQ, then he won't call the turn anyway and he might bet it--if he improves on the river, he may call your river bet. If he has a better hand than you, then you will often induce him to call instead of raise and save a BB.

roy_miami · #8 06-09-2005, 01:36 AM

Is this flop call standard? I normally just give up with unimproved AJ to a 3-bettor when I miss. Do the backdoor draws make this a call or do you always call looking to spike an Ace or jack on the turn?

theBruiser500 · #9 06-09-2005, 01:58 AM

you could do some math on te hand, figure out pot odds and his range of hands and see if is hould call with AJ there...

1800GAMBLER · #10 06-09-2005, 09:51 AM

I play it the same and agree with your thoughts to Jeff. I do think you are under estimating the % of the time a 30/60 player does a very stupid free showdown play with a pocket pair here though. Happens a lot but not huge, i imagine it's a mix of frustration, 'he might fold' and 'he might be bluffing with a pocket pair' all of which are pretty crappy reasoning.