% of money finishes

[ric2020]

Would just like feedback from some of you pros.

In all the books i have read, none really go into the actual success rate of a profitable tournament poker player.

I have come to the following conclusions

Finishes in the money % (asume even distribution in the money finishes)

Break even 12-16%
Good player 16-22%
Very good 22-28%
Awesome 28%+

Do these sound about right, Also can it be possible for anyone to get above 30% over the long term?

[Bernas]

Are these numbers for Major tournaments or for a $30 MTT on the internet?

[ric2020]

$10 to $50 MTT on the net

[Cleveland Guy]

I don't think it matters how often you place.

I'd rather place in 10% of my tournaments if half of those (5% are going to be final tables).

I'd take that over 20 placements with like 1 final table.

100 Tournaments

5 - Make the money, but not final table
5 - Final Table ( including 1 win) or

100 Tournaments

10 - Barely get your buy in back
8 - Make the money, but not the final table
2 - Final Tables (but no wins)

[Bernas]

I agree Cleveland Guy, but I blieve if you are good enough to make 5 final tables out of 100 tourneys that you will probably place in the money more than 10% of the time.

[ric2020]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it matters how often you place.

I'd rather place in 10% of my tournaments if half of those (5% are going to be final tables).

I'd take that over 20 placements with like 1 final table.

100 Tournaments

5 - Make the money, but not final table
5 - Final Table ( including 1 win) or

100 Tournaments

10 - Barely get your buy in back
8 - Make the money, but not the final table
2 - Final Tables (but no wins)

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously more money is better, but i', more interested in using the %money finishes as a guide to my performance.
To Just taking money won as a guide will be offset by late tourney luck, unless taken over a very large number of tournaments, like 100 +

[Bernas]

I think what Cleveland guy is saying, is that what you are doing might not be the best way to determine how well you are performing.

I suspect that if a really good player just focused on making it into the money, than his percentage of money finishes would go up drastically, but his total money earnt would drop.

[Cleveland Guy]

My Point exactly.

Usually the back end of the money is maybe 1.5X your buy in.

So placing in 50% - but just creeping in is actually negative.

Vs. Winning 1 - where you get 600-800X your Buy in is a lot more proftable.

Bernas - I'm sure that my percentage is higher than 10%, but the bubble for me doesn't start until we are about to reach the final table. I don't care about being in the back end of the money, so I might gamble more around that time than others.

[Bernas]

That's what I figured.

[ric2020]

[ QUOTE ]
My Point exactly.

Usually the back end of the money is maybe 1.5X your buy in.

So placing in 50% - but just creeping in is actually negative.

Vs. Winning 1 - where you get 600-800X your Buy in is a lot more proftable.

Bernas - I'm sure that my percentage is higher than 10%, but the bubble for me doesn't start until we are about to reach the final table. I don't care about being in the back end of the money, so I might gamble more around that time than others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your comments.

Actually return on investment is the obviouly the only real way to judge performance, but i still think that having a % money finish will give an better indication in the shorter term, especially with the larger entry fileds these days, 500-2000 players. With 2000 entrants the variance on the actual cash won can make judgeing performance difficult.

For example, 1 1st place in 20 tourneys will pay significantly more than 10 early money finishes, but surely the latter indicates a better overall performance (maybe some late tourney analysis needed)?

Or put it this way, is someone who finishes on the final table of the WSOP 6 out of 20 attempts but never above 5th, a worst player than someone who wins 1 and has 19 out of the money finishes, simply becasue he has won less money?

What i am trying to get at is a better way to judge my performance (over the short term), than simply looking at the bottom line.