TT gets capped.

[emitch]

Grunch

I would say that card helps you more times than it would hurt you, giving you the top end of a OESD. Your flop raise slowed him down, I would put him on AK, KQ, KJs maybe a scared JJ. I would rather check the river than the turn, you have fold equity here and the bets just got more expensive, put a bet in and see what happens. It may be spewing but I would keep betting until shown resistance or another overcard might make me reevaluate. This is probably one of the areas that I have the most trouble with and I am interested to see what some of the experts say here.

I fold to a turn cr and call a donkbet on the rvr.

mitch

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch

I would say that card helps you more times than it would hurt you, giving you the top end of a OESD. Your flop raise slowed him down, I would put him on AK, KQ, KJs maybe a scared JJ. I would rather check the river than the turn, you have fold equity here and the bets just got more expensive, put a bet in and see what happens. It may be spewing but I would keep betting until shown resistance or another overcard might make me reevaluate. This is probably one of the areas that I have the most trouble with and I am interested to see what some of the experts say here.

I fold to a turn cr and call a donkbet on the rvr.

mitch

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mitch folding to a turn check/raise would be pretty bad you would be getting 10:1 on your call and have as many as 10 outs so you would clearly have the odds to call the check/raise. Getting check/raised is the main reason so many agree with the turn check we have outs and want to see the last card.

[ QUOTE ]
It may be spewing but I would keep betting until shown resistance or another overcard might make me reevaluate. ...
I fold to a turn cr and call a donkbet on the rvr.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mitch I don't understand your line. We have plenty of odds to peel on the turn, and calling a river donkbet seems foolish. However, I'm a big fan of betting this turn. If we're raised, we have outs to improve and most likely collect two extra bets when he bets the river and we raise him with our straight [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If he has AK, we're charging him for it. If he has JJ we've shown considerable strength and he might just fold it on the turn or river. My line is to bet the turn with outs and bet/fold the river UI if he didn't raise us. I fold to a river donk bet.

[emitch]

Very good point. As I said, this is one of my main problem areas and you really shed some light on things here. In my old calling station days, I would have called that down, but I am still adjusting to the bet/raise/fold mentality. I try to read the hands once and respond to give myself the feel of really being in the hand with limited time. I know how to find outs and calculate odds, but in the heat of the moment, i am sure i screw it up a lot. This is something I will really work on and probably take down a few more large pots with this information. I think you have to discount your T outs due to the possible overset (which will get cr, or raised), and also could give the villian the straight. That said, there are more than enough OESD outs to call that as you said.

Thanks,

mitch

[emitch]

Someone already pointed out that I was wrong on the folding to a cr, which would be the wrong thing to do and it has cleared some things up for me.

If they call a turn bet, and donkbet the river, I guess it could be a stop and go (correct term I hope), but I have seen AK do this enough times to make calling in a 10+ BB pot profitable.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

mitch

[TomBrooks]

I replied before, but somehow hadn't realized CO had capped preflop, so I deleted and rethought it.

I don't like the flop raise. CO probably has AA, KK, QQ or maybe JJ. Some will cap with AK/AKs OOP but that is overplaying it and I wouldn't count on it.

As played, your flop raise might have worked out for you. I'll take the free card here. I don't want to semibluff as we likely have little fold equity because no pairs better than ours are folding. We have little chance to fold even JJ as that hand has a gutshot.

[SL__72]

What about when the river?

If it is a brick and he bets? Checks?

If its A/K and he bets? Checks?

At the time I was planning on checking behind or calling a bet if it bricked, checking behind or folding to a bet if it were A/K.



Results in white:
<font color="white">(~7BBs) River 6
He bets, I raise, he calls w/ JJ and is angry.</font>

In retrospect I'm not sure about the flop raise. I thought the turn check was good but wasn't sure...

[Koss]

The more I think about it the less I like the flop raise. A call will slow down a passive AK or JJ any day, and any top pair or better is probably 3-betting. It may be results oriented thinking, but I think we save more bets by calling rather than raising.

[emitch]

I don't like the raise here. After the turn check, I wouldn't have any idea where I was at. They could still have the AK, but could also have hit the Q, or have JJ or be weak tight with KK (worried that you 3bet QQ). I would have only called the river bet, definately after checking the turn because it give AK the green light to bet at the pot. This is why I personally like betting the turn and checking behind on the river.

Again, I am no expert so take for what its worth.

Why was he angry, didn't like you scaring him? If he was mad make a note and use it to your advantage later.

mitch

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the raise here. After the turn check, I wouldn't have any idea where I was at. They could still have the AK, but could also have hit the Q, or have JJ or be weak tight with KK (worried that you 3bet QQ). I would have only called the river bet, definately after checking the turn because it give AK the green light to bet at the pot. This is why I personally like betting the turn and checking behind on the river.

Again, I am no expert so take for what its worth.

Why was he angry, didn't like you scaring him? If he was mad make a note and use it to your advantage later.

mitch

[/ QUOTE ]

Mitch hero won with a ten high straight