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#32
09-18-2005, 05:15 AM
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Re: Ace Jack on the button
All I'm gonna say about this thread is when not one, but two, maybe more (I only skimmed it) people have written an essay about why it's right to fold AJo on the button to a LAG's CO raise because they can find better spots, it reminds me of calling KK PF in case an ace hits. Also, please sit at my table, preferably to my left.
PS: Given the way you played it and his bet, I can find a fold on the river pretty easily. 
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#33
09-18-2005, 05:18 AM
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Re: Ace Jack on the button
[ QUOTE ]
Yea it's a vulnerable hand, and definitely missplyaed often... but the early stages of a tournament you're supposed to push your edges and try and accumulate chips... vs villains huge range here, which i put at [22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,J9s+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,A5o+,KJo+, QJo] and i may have even understated it... you're a 55% favorite.. calling gains no information and you probably have to fold to a non A/J flop. so.. calling you lose value cause you'll lose to a continuation on the flop... [/ QUOTE ] how the hell do you lose value by calling when you know he will make a continuation bet? my head hurts
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#34
09-18-2005, 05:22 AM
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Re: Ace Jack on the button
maybe i phrased it wrong..
i was saying you're not gaining information, you're not narrowing his range any (a range that you're ahead of currently). 'losing value' just seemed like a good way to put it.
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#35
09-18-2005, 05:57 AM
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Re: Ace Jack on the button
[ QUOTE ]
All I'm gonna say about this thread is when not one, but two, maybe more (I only skimmed it) people have written an essay about why it's right to fold AJo on the button to a LAG's CO raise because they can find better spots, it reminds me of calling KK PF in case an ace hits. [/ QUOTE ] As long as you don't have AA, you can always find a better spot. Assuming villain really is a lag here, a reraise seems reasonable, but a call might be better, depending, because of this very situation. The question is, how often does he fold when caught? If he can't lay a hand down, then there's not much point in a reraise. If you call, as Adanthar said, he'll almost certainly make a continuation bet. Only now the pot is smaller and you've gotten to see the flop at less risk. If, however, he is the sort of lag that can still lay a hand down pf, then by all means, reraise.
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#36
09-18-2005, 10:17 AM
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Re: Ace Jack on the button
Mathematically a river fold is probably incorrect. If i put
him on a range of hand from pocket pairs, Ace rag, a hand with a Nine in it than with the pot laying me 4 to 1 I think a call is warranted. He's seemingly LAG so he may have even called with JQ or JT and paired his Jack like I did. Humanistically, based on his play of the hand I think a fold is much easier to come up with. What else can he have based on his play? I often get torn between math and the people aspects of poker and the fact we play with very incomplete information. Bruce
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#37
09-18-2005, 10:24 AM
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HOH part 1
I was reading HOH part 1 last night. Sorry, I don't have the book with me right now for the moment, but early in the book on page 59 (might be wrong but if so I'm close) Dan
goes through a very similar example in one of his problems. The cutoff, who he describles as an overly aggressive player, open raises for 3x the big blind. You are on the button with AJs. What do you do? Call, fold, or raise. Both blinds are pretty tight. Chip stacks are similar to my scenario. Dan says in a deepstacked situation, like this tournament, early on he recommends calling. In limit holdem you would obviously reraise. In a shortstacked tournament you would reraise also, but in a deepstacked event the fact that you don't reraise you are compensated by having the button. This early in the tournament you don't also want to risk too many chips in this type of situation. Bruce
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#39
09-18-2005, 10:35 AM
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Please Note
This is only one man's opinion. Dan has a reputation for being tight and the hand he's referring to is AJs. Not sure how much our debate changes with AJo. His book is an
excellent piece, but like any book addressing a complex subject there are always going to be multiple interpretations. Bruce
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#40
09-18-2005, 10:40 AM
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Re: HOH part 1
His problem had almost identical stacks. The stacks we had were slightly larger and the blinds from his example were
50/100. So I had a slightly larger stack but in his problem the blinds were twice as big. So I guess I'm even more deepstacked with the smaller blinds than what he's referring to. Bruce
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