5/10 3handed: spewing?

[StellarWind]

If you must pull some stunt like this for whatever reason, wait until you have a heart. It gives you an extra chance. There are plenty of opportunities to make big bluffs. You can wait until you have a hand that contains an extra chance or two.

I would peel this flop and fold when I get an awful turn and he persists in betting. This turn raise is definitely spewing.

There is no such rule as call the flop means you must showdown. It is good to take cheap cards on flops like this hoping to:

1. Spike a pair.

2. Get a free card.

3. Pick up a wheelshot in which case you will probably showdown unimproved at a reduced EV cost.

4. At least get a card that doesn't trash your hand the way K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] does. You can be flexible about how blank a card you are looking for in order to invest in a showdown against a particular Villain.

This hybrid technique of calling the flop partially to draw and partially to call down is an important technique for combatting excessive weakness.

[xCEO]

I was still thinking about this hand, or more about situations like this. I just came to the conclusion that peeling the flop doesn't make sense against a TAG 3better. He is almost always going to bet the turn again. If you know this on the flop, peeling here is bad because you don't have the odds to call a turnbet. You can improve on the turn, that's true.. But a 8 or A here may not help you very much.

So fold the flop? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
He is almost always going to bet the turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
So your Villain not only autobets the flop, he autobets the turn too? He has a wide range for preflop 3-bets and he always puts at least 3 BB in the pot without even looking at the board?

You know that makes him a mindless idiot don't you?

Never raise the flop. Anytime you get a hand you like save it for raising the turn. You'll destroy him.

Loose flop peels are for dealing with sensible players who realize that there is something wrong with autobetting the turn. They have to give a few free cards. Those free cards improve the odds on calling and allow you to slip in a few extra borderline hands.

If he always bets the turn then skip the loose flop peels and take his money with your good hands. If he gives too many free cards then call lots of extra flops.

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is almost always going to bet the turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
Never raise the flop. Anytime you get a hand you like save it for raising the turn. You'll destroy him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you referring to this specific opponent who always bets the turn, or is it your standard operating procedure in blind battles?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is almost always going to bet the turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
So your Villain not only autobets the flop, he autobets the turn too? He has a wide range for preflop 3-bets and he always puts at least 3 BB in the pot without even looking at the board?

You know that makes him a mindless idiot don't you?

Never raise the flop. Anytime you get a hand you like save it for raising the turn. You'll destroy him.

Loose flop peels are for dealing with sensible players who realize that there is something wrong with autobetting the turn. They have to give a few free cards. Those free cards improve the odds on calling and allow you to slip in a few extra borderline hands.

If he always bets the turn then skip the loose flop peels and take his money with your good hands. If he gives too many free cards then call lots of extra flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stellar,

Never raising the flop really sucks, especially 3-handed. And in this particular game, there are very very few opponents who will bet the flop and check the turn, ever. I'm going out for dinner but I'll try to elaborate in a bit if I can. I'm posting this short post to try to remind myself that I need to elaborate more on this later.

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is almost always going to bet the turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
So your Villain not only autobets the flop, he autobets the turn too? He has a wide range for preflop 3-bets and he always puts at least 3 BB in the pot without even looking at the board?

You know that makes him a mindless idiot don't you?

Never raise the flop. Anytime you get a hand you like save it for raising the turn. You'll destroy him.

Loose flop peels are for dealing with sensible players who realize that there is something wrong with autobetting the turn. They have to give a few free cards. Those free cards improve the odds on calling and allow you to slip in a few extra borderline hands.

If he always bets the turn then skip the loose flop peels and take his money with your good hands. If he gives too many free cards then call lots of extra flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stellar,

Never raising the flop really sucks, especially 3-handed. And in this particular game, there are very very few opponents who will bet the flop and check the turn, ever. I'm going out for dinner but I'll try to elaborate in a bit if I can. I'm posting this short post to try to remind myself that I need to elaborate more on this later.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Stellar's point is that if this is the case, peeling is hugely -EV, but calling with monsters and raising the turn is hugely +EV.

If the players who 3-bet preflop *always* autobet the flop *and* the turn, regardless of the cards that come, then it's pretty easy to deploy the rope-a-dope strategy to destroy them, and very easy to fold hands like this on the flop. You shouldn't be worried about being too weak by folding on the flop.