KK HU OOP, call down or fold?

PokerDork · #1 07-29-2005, 11:14 AM

The following hand took place last night at Potawatomi's 5/10 game. The full kill is in effect and the villain in this hand is UTG+1 and in the kill blind. He seems to be slightly looser and more passive than he should be, but he is fairly solid, most likely a small overall winner. But, I haven't played much with him, so he could be better or worse than I give him credit for.
I have the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG and raise. Villain seems like he can't decide what to do, although it looks like more of a call/fold situation than a call/raise situation. After a few seconds he does call. Everyone else folds and HU to the flop we go.
Flop 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, he calls

Turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, he raises, call down or fold.

Things to know, I'm not sure if villain is capable of bluffing a scare card or not. It is unlikely he holds a 5 since he folds all of those hands to my raise, except maybe 55. TT or a set seem somewhat likely, as he is passive and he may not reraise with TT, what should I do?
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Frank Zappy · #2 07-29-2005, 11:24 AM

How about raise? Why play from your JcTc fear? Maybe he's got A9s or JJ?

My philosoply is "If you're going to learn how a new player plays to showdown, you should be the one directing traffic." It might cost you an extra bet or two but so what? You still have KK, right? If this were no limit you would probably shoved allin PF anyway so why worry over a few bets in this situation?

Why automatically depreciate your hand because someone rasies? Poker player are ths most FOS people on the planet and you simply can't give everyone credit for a hand because they threw a few extra chips into the pot.

butters · #3 07-29-2005, 11:49 AM

do you hate money?

W. Deranged · #4 07-29-2005, 11:53 AM

I predict Frank Zappy becomes the victim of some serious flaming within the next week or so.

Watch out, dude. You're in for a fun ride.

chief444 · #5 07-29-2005, 11:59 AM

If your name were Frank Zappa I'd like you even more.

I don't really like you're advice though. If you think they're FOS why not just call down? But then I guess I do worry over a few bets here and there...since a few bets here and there make the difference between a winning and losing player.

Frank Zappy · #6 07-29-2005, 11:59 AM

For real? You're folding KK here?

Motto: "Make the nuts or fold"

PokerDork · #7 07-29-2005, 12:01 PM

Frank, for the first time in my life, I'm actually hoping someone here is a troll. Keep in mind, he's a little bit passive, meaning his raise indicates something, but he's also pretty solid and knows I'm pretty solid, so he may be capable of bluff-raising me off of "overcards" here. All your advice seems to do is lose me the most when I'm behind, seeing as that a 3-bet would fold his bluffs and even hands like A9, get me called down with a set, and probably get four-bet by a straight. Also, after my 3-bet, should i go ahead and bet any river? If you'd like another crack, go for it.

Frank Zappy · #8 07-29-2005, 12:05 PM

Well, my real name is Frank and when I was being introduced to some new people, my friend said, "This is Frank, watch out for him, he's very Zappy" so I made it my screen name.

As a guitar player, Zappa had no peers.

As for my poker advise, I'm going to put on a Hazmat suit before I post next.

If I think he's FOS I want to be the one directing traffic; it's like aikido on green felt.

butters · #9 07-29-2005, 12:07 PM

option #1: fold. 4 to a straight on the board against a decent but not overly agressive player who's now raising. KK = no good.

option #2: call down. you've got some outs against a two-pair hand and/or he might be trying something funny.

option #3: get up and walk away from the table. this is better than:

option #4: reraise the turn.

Gambler · #10 07-29-2005, 12:10 PM

I think the combination of your hand still being good and lack of a solid read on this opponent dictates a call down here. Even if the worst case is true and he has a straight or a set you do have a few outs to a split pot. I think a reraise on the turn is idiotic.