PP 15/30 hand -- AJ on the SB

Mizzles · #1 03-19-2005, 08:17 AM

CO Stats -- 50%/20%

Incorrect flop call, right?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 12 BB

TStoneMBD · #2 03-19-2005, 11:06 AM

i think this is an easy 3bet preflop. you got a CO that is way too agressive preflop coming in from a LP raise. you should definitely have the best hand here. your hand also plays far better headsup than it does in a 4way pot. your coldcall only allowed the other 2 players to come in behind you and put you in a quandry postflop.

yah its a pretty bad flop call. 2bets is too much for your hand. not only that, but the BB leading into the PFR raise instead of checkraising is indicating a probably 3bet.

Turning Stone Pro · #3 03-19-2005, 11:32 AM

Mike:

You have an EP limper in this hand, as well as the raising CO. You can't three-bet this pre-flop, you are completely out of position and likely behind both other players. I would probably call pre-flop from the SB, but folding is probably correct.

Obviously, you can't call two cold on the flop with this hand. You have basically no clean outs, and are way behind.

TSP

TStoneMBD · #4 03-19-2005, 11:37 AM

id like you to elaborate on this for me, because ive been playing plays like these out of the blinds quite frequently. how can you think that you are behind to both players? you have a UTG2 limper. would he limp with AQ/AK there? you also have a CO raiser, with a 20%PFR. he could be making this play with any ace, any K8o or higher with this high a VPIP. QT, 9Ts, etc are also very big possibilities. stats on the UTG2 player would be helpful here. if he has a VPIP of like 30 i cant see 3betting this preflop being a mistake. i could also never consider folding this to a CO raiser with those stats, so my order of lines is raise/call/fold.

Turning Stone Pro · #5 03-19-2005, 12:32 PM

Mike, I dont know what to tell ya other than re-raising from the small blind with AJo in this spot, with an early limper and late position raiser, is bad poker. You do not have a good hand -- it is a weak hand when played out of position, and will usually win small pots and lose large ones. The only card that helps you is an A, if no one has a better one, or a J with no Q or K. This, IMO, is not worth 3 betting into two players, one of whom entered early and the other raised late.

I don't put much credence in all that VPIP stuff, either. Who knows how all that data was collected. I know I talk a lot of smack, but I have made 100k in 10 months playing online. I would never make this play, never. I respect you and your game, but I think this is -ev. Maybe others will disagree with me, but this is my opinion.

TSP

TStoneMBD · #6 03-19-2005, 01:30 PM

you dont have to give me your stats, i know that youre doing very well online. you also dont have to butter me up by saying you respect my play just to argue a standpoint of mine. im glad that youre telling me this, because maybe this is a major leak of mine. i really hope that someone else jumps in and comments on this here, because im still not certain that you are correct. even if i was, i dont know which hands im pushing too hard with out of the blinds. its easy to just say that AJo is not a hand worth 3betting out the blinds, its another thing for me to change my entire game.

Turning Stone Pro · #7 03-19-2005, 01:32 PM

Didn't mean to offend you, and wasnt trying to patronize you.

Sorry about any misunderstanding.

TSP

astroglide · #8 03-19-2005, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have made 100k in 10 months playing online

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
After playing probably 150,000 hands of PP 15-30, I am going back down to 5-10. I simply can't win. Too many pros, multi-tabling experts, suspicious beats, etc.

I can't run with the big dogs, so Ill go back on the porch . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

here is a link to the second quote which was posted on 3/8/2005

you are pathetic

Turning Stone Pro · #9 03-19-2005, 02:56 PM

and you're a loser

TSP

DcifrThs · #10 03-19-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and you're a loser

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

nice way to explain astro's point. you said you couldn't make money and were moving back down, and then claimed to have made 100k in 10 months....

explanation?
-Barron