A few thoughts.

johnny005 · #1 07-28-2005, 05:04 AM

I've been thinking a bit lately about optimal bubble play. I have eastbays ICM program I fully understand all of these concepts.

There comes a point though that I feel I have to deviate from the standard pushing ranges just to let my self feel comfortable..
If your getting a bad run of cards your gonna have to push at somepoint that might not be +EV, but maybe you want to look for the least -EV situation.
The times that I find myself thinking like this are when I feel I'm loosing my FE, has anyone else thought of this? Maybe this is something that all good players know about maybe Its something that is really stupid. Am I making any sense here?

I'm not sure just wondering what everyones thoughts are?

curtains · #2 07-28-2005, 05:05 AM

Yes it makes perfect sense. Sometimes UTG you can make a push thats -EV, but taking the BB next hand with 2 random cards will be even more -EV. The tool can't do everything for you, sometimes you just have to use your own judgement and weigh the options. However it's a very useful tool overall.

johnny005 · #3 07-28-2005, 05:12 AM

Yah, the post really didnt have anything to do with eastbays program. I think I just wanted to know at what point people start to feel preasured?
I find that around 5-6 BB I start to feel it, I'm really not looking to hit another BB. If I have to Oh well But when UTG comes along If I have a hand that is better than 50% im pushing it.
What range of stack size in BB's do you think you should start worrying about your tournament life?

lastchance · #4 07-28-2005, 05:17 AM

5x BB or lower is "desperation" mode for me.

ChuckNorris · #5 07-28-2005, 06:57 AM

I don't find 5BB to be desperate, not necessarily even 4. I believe you often have a lot of FE with 3BB, at least at the 55's, where I see people folding BB's to ~2BB all-ins on a daily basis. I used to do 'desperation all-ins' with crap a lot, but for some reason I've began to feel that it's very rarely a good idea. I remember vaguely some post where Daliman pointed out how 4BB is nowhere near desperate or something.. And I have to agree. Especially when it's bubble time, I think it's usually better to wait for a good hand / someone to bust out rather than to go all-in with Q2o from CO or something.

Gigabet also pointed out that UTG+1 is the place to do desperation all-ins as it isn't that obvious. I wouldn't care about this at the lower (including $55) buy-ins though, unless you have a feeling that you're at a tougher than usual table.

vabogee · #6 07-28-2005, 07:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Gigabet also pointed out that UTG+1 is the place to do desperation all-ins as it isn't that obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure this is correct. UTG and UTG+1 are THE most obvious spots for desperate 3X or 4XBB all-ins. The blinds are about to suck them into the void and they'd rather push with whatever junk they have at the moment than risk having to call a raise from the BB with 26o...IMO.

Maulik · #7 07-28-2005, 08:47 AM

Daliman pointed out how 4BB is nowhere near desperate or something

does this hold any weight in the $11s?
I'm searching for this post if anyone happens to have it in their favourites, please post link.

A-Baum · #8 07-28-2005, 09:03 AM

I think you have less and less FE as the buyin goes down. At an $11 SNG, FE barely matters unless you have villain covered. Just my experience. FE matters more as your buyin goes up because people are more likely actually thinking and looking at relative chip stacks.

Many many times in a $11 or $22 I've pushed on the button with 800 chips at 100/200 level and been called by both the SB and BB because they had t1000 or more. At least one flips over junk, and one has A rag or K rag. I wouldn't mind going up against one of these guys with my TJs but against 2 I'm in trouble. In these lower buyins I tend to get much more aggressive later in the tournament if I'm barely at or above the 10xbb level. I can usually pick up some easy chips and cruise a little farther.