Barron's article on 3 betting preflop with KQ suited

[skp]

First off, let me say that the article was well written and overall a good read. It also made me think back to the loose games that I played in B&M casinos for years. It was almost nostalgic as I read the article...heh

The hand itself was well played but I hated this passage in the article:

[ QUOTE ]
This pot wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't [Re]raised king-queen suited, which built the pot to a size where I could play a draw, whereas I wouldn't have had the odds otherwise. Always be mindful of the size of the pot and be constantly evaluating not only your immediate pot odds, but your implied odds given all the data.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes the passage worse is that it is the clsoing paragraph and serves as the theme or message to be taken from the article.

IMO, it's the wrong message. If it were the right message, you should also 3 bet with 22, 76 suited or just about anything playable in this spot.

IMO, the reasons for three betting are these:

1. Your preflop 3 bet might get you a free turn card and that could be particularly useful when you catch a flop with just one card in your suit or as part of broadway. For example, if the flop comes J85 with one heart, there are turn cards that can turn your nothing hand to a monster draw. If you didn't 3 bet preflop, you may not get a chance at all to see the turn if, for example, there is a bet and a raise ahead of you. On this footing alone, by 3 betting preflop, you greatly increase your chances of winning the hand.

2. You want people to be tied to their hands if you flop a big draw. But this could be good news/bad news as you generally don't want too many people being tied to their hands when you flop just top pair.

3. The hand plays well multiway. It has good pot equity in this spot. But it plays equally well whether for two bets preflop or 3 bets preflop. So, that's not really a reason to 3 bet as much as it is a reason to play simpliciter. The main reason to 3 bet IMO is set out in point 1 above.

4. Add deception to your game i.e. to let others know that not all preflop 3 bets that you make are AK or TT or better.

5. To have some fun - an entirely understated and overlooked aspect of poker in this day and age where everything is analyzed to the nth degree from an EV standpoint.

The reason to 3 bet has nothing to do with ballooning the pot so that you have odds to chase (as the last paragraph of the article seems to imply).

[BarronVangorToth]

While I don't agree you should 3-bet with 22 or 76s in that spot, I agree 100% that there are a lot of reasons to reraise, and I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that there was just the reason I listed.

Very good point.

I'm glad you otherwise enjoyed it - and thank you for the compliment and for taking the time to comment.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[StellarWind]

I just ran a Poker Stove simulation on KQs 6-handed:

Player 1: AA-TT, AK, AQ

Player 2: AA-66, any suited broadway, A9s, AK-AJ, KQ

Players 3-5: Any pocket, any suited, any ace, any broadway.

Hero: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

These ranges are based on the reads in the article and are perhaps wider than they should be.

Hero wins 16.4% which is less than 1/6. Simulations aren't everything but the differences don't exactly favor us here. Most of these opponents will usually play any plausible hand to the end and we will not; our real winning chances are probably worse than the hot-and-cold computation.

It is also a big negative factor to give a player that only plays premium hands the option to cap.

The moral of this story is an old one. Players who only raise premium hands preflop are extremely dangerous. Normal standards for 3-bets and coldcalls don't apply.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
While I don't agree you should 3-bet with 22 or 76s in that spot

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe skp's point was that he doesn't like the idea of 3-betting with a worse hand so that you can play a draw later on. If that were a good idea, then 3-betting 22/76s would be good also, which is silly.

[Gabe DV]

I had some problems with this article too. 3-betting when you know you are behind (and hoping it gets capped) to get odds for a draw later ignores one important fact--that you are putting 4 bets in preflop when you are way behind (this goes on Barron's assumption that these are tight players). Now I understand that after the flop you might have better odds to chase a draw, but it cost you 4 bets to get those odds! Even though the money ceases to be yours when you put it in the pot, it was yours when you made the decision.
This disagreement aside, I usually enjoy Barron's articles very much.