Wasted bet on the river?

maurile · #1 08-11-2004, 10:19 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, Button calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (14 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below: 
SB shows 3s Qs (one pair, queens).
Hero shows Jh Ah (high card, ace).
Button shows 6c 5d (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: SB wins 17 BB.

Mike Gallo · #2 08-11-2004, 10:23 PM

Maurile,

By betting you give your opponents the opportunity to fold and yourself a chance to win.

If you check, you give yourself no chance. In a protected pot your river bet will most likely get called,however I would not call it a wasted bet.

tolbiny · #3 08-11-2004, 10:32 PM

what would you think about checking the turn?

Mike Gallo · #4 08-11-2004, 10:39 PM

With the intention of what, checkraising check folding or check calling?

tolbiny · #5 08-11-2004, 10:49 PM

Check calling- but mostly having it checked through as the button has done nothing but call so far there is no reason that turn card should induce a bet from him.

Mike Gallo · #6 08-11-2004, 10:59 PM

checking the turn is fine, however I like heros follow through bet on the turn.

tolbiny · #7 08-11-2004, 11:10 PM

Why is that- i dont see what it accomplishes.

maurile · #8 08-11-2004, 11:33 PM

I would have been more likely to check the turn if I had position, since it would have ensured getting a free card. Even then, though, I probably would have bet to see if I could make people fold. Besides, with the nut flush draw and one overcard against two opponents, I had more than my fair share of pot equity as long as my ace overcard was good. (In fact, on this particular hand, my pot equity was 46% on the turn. Link.)

DrNick · #9 08-12-2004, 12:01 AM

Maurile,

Apart from the river, I like how you played the hand.

At the river, I look at from a purely mathematical standpoint: will both my opponents fold more than 1/15th of the time?

If yes, bet. If no, check and be done with it.

In the long run, I think you probably lose a small fraction of a big bet here. While it might be tactically incorrect, I might recommend making it anyways for strategic reasons (advertising, manipulating opponents, etc.)

Cheers,
DrNick

BeerMoney · #10 08-12-2004, 12:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
checking the turn is fine, however I like heros follow through bet on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

He may get someone to fold here, but to me it smells like a slow play and or some people that aren't going anywhere now that the pot is gigantic. I don't like the idea of betting here cause it seems like you are betting someone elses hand for them. Let them do the work.