KQo 40/80

DcifrThs · #1 06-13-2005, 01:58 AM

6 handed i open in the CO w/ KQo. unknown button 3bets sb calls (sb is making the game good...very good) i call 3 handed for 10sbs

Qx9c8c i have the KcQx. sb checks i check button bets sb calls i c'r both call.

turn Ac.

sb checks i check button checks it through.

river is a blank 5x or something. sb checks i bet. button folds sb calls.

not entirely interesting but the turn could be played differently, i was briefly considering checkraising again and was intrigued by that line...other more standard lines definately do apply here though..
-Barron

goofball · #2 06-13-2005, 02:40 AM

if button bets again, and sb calls, just a glance (no math) says you have the equity to checkraise for value. Might even set you up for a trifecta if you make the nuts on the river [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Unfortunetly I don't think the button can be ocunted on often enough to bet here, so you should.

vulture · #3 06-13-2005, 06:57 AM

<blockquote>Als antwoord op:<hr />
not entirely interesting but the turn could be played differently, i was briefly considering checkraising again and was intrigued by that line...other more standard lines definately do apply here though..

[/ QUOTE ]

I think check-raising would not be smart, in case you get three betted you have to pay another bet on the turn, for you flush draw. I would have bet out on the turn.

ggbman · #4 06-13-2005, 08:09 AM

I don't see why you don't bet this turn against a bad SB here.

AceHigh · #5 06-13-2005, 08:44 AM

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not entirely interesting but the turn could be played differently, i was briefly considering checkraising again and was intrigued by that line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you check/raise the turn? The buttons only betting if he has an Ace, isn't he?

DcifrThs · #6 06-13-2005, 01:43 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
not entirely interesting but the turn could be played differently, i was briefly considering checkraising again and was intrigued by that line.

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Why would you check/raise the turn? The buttons only betting if he has an Ace, isn't he?

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the button bet the flop and called a c'r. if he has an ace he'll bet and i have TONS of equity here no matter what. getting 2:1 on a raise here is made up for by the fact that we are both likely splitting the money put in from the sb (or more correctly, GIVEN he has an ace and all my outs are clean its a 70-30 split) getting 2:1 or 33% on any bet they both call i almost have total equity to checkraise for value.

now if that checkraise EVER gets the button to fold for 1 bet on the river the times he does have some ace and i dont improve (and still get called by the sb and win...which is pretty damn likely) then i've made a massively positive investment while only getting SLIGHTLY incorrect odds for it (to the tune of 3 percentage points, or .03bbs not counting the river bet...which is offset by and large by the previous discussion)

further, if i AM behind here, i have 8 non board pairing club outs and likely some combination of trip/pair outs givin i dont know his kicker (like AK for instance, or AQ to which im currently dead)...but, even if i am behind its hard for him to 3bet my c'r and likely lose the sb and get it HU with somebody who just checkraised him on both postflop streets AFTER the flush draw hit AND i have the Kc so i know he can't have it.

now, if im a head and give him a free card, the money i lose from betting is really the sb's likely call and his, lets say 65% or so because he's tossing the stuff (some small pair he 3bet me with maybe) to a bet but calling with it on the river if i check. so i earn a call there...the only true loss is when both have hands i beat that i can value bet both streets...but i dont think thats likely and its a close value bet (but a necessary one) on the river.

well i thought this hand was closer and more interesting than others i guess...the reasons for the turn c'r imo are what makes it interesting...not something i would have thought of 1 year ago.

-Barron

M2d · #7 06-13-2005, 02:30 PM

given the previous action, if the button calls the river bet, what's the likelyhood of the sb overcalling? also, any inkling if the button would take a stab at the river if you checked it to him again?
inducing a bluff isn't necessarily the best course of action, but it should be considered if you can make two bets on your winning hands here instead of one (and all the accompanying "lose-less" scenarios).

vulture · #8 06-14-2005, 06:05 AM

<blockquote>Als antwoord op:<hr />
I don't see why you don't bet this turn against a bad SB here.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what I say

Blackjack · #9 06-14-2005, 06:12 AM

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I don't see why you don't bet this turn against a bad SB here.

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that's what I say

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You don't want the button raising and knocking out the SB here.

Blackjack

AceHigh · #10 06-14-2005, 08:57 AM

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if he has an ace he'll bet and i have TONS of equity here no matter what. getting 2:1 on a raise here is made up for by the fact that we are both likely splitting the money put in from the sb (or more correctly, GIVEN he has an ace and all my outs are clean its a 70-30 split) getting 2:1 or 33% on any bet they both call i almost have total equity to checkraise for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say you have "TONS" of equity, then you say it's a 70-30 split, I wouldn't call 30% tons of equity. Plus we don't know if SB will call.

I just think check/raising is bad, because JJ/TT is going to check behind but Ax is betting, so we are charging ourselves the max when behind.

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now if that checkraise EVER gets the button to fold for 1 bet on the river the times he does have some ace and i dont improve

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Seems pretty unlikely, unless you make your flush.