do u guys use Harringtons' M value?

[Nicholasp27]

my point is that when you have <10bbs, you should be using ICM to determine your push/fold strategy, so M doesn't really apply to sngs (at least in party structure)...we use icm and opp calling/pushing ranges to determine how aggressive we can be in pushing/calling based on if it's +$ev to make that move compared to folding based on ranges and icm value of outcomes

[maddog2030]

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M is not the same as thinking in terms of how many bbs you have, as M is sb+bb (+ antes, if applicable)

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It is the same thing in a nonante game. You're simply adjusting the relative numbers, and M is better because it has the ability to take into account the antes when that situation comes up (and missing small blinds).

Of course, number of BBs is easier to figure out and since there are no antes in Party SNGs, using BBs is equivalent and is what most people use.

[Nicholasp27]

i don't see how sb+bb=bb

[Jbrochu]

I understand your point. My point is that while you might use ICM to determine push/fold when your bbs<10, an "M user" might use ICM to determine push/fold strategy when their M < 5.

(Much like Americans choose to wear a warm jacket when it's 32 degrees, and Europeans wear a warm jacket when its 0 degrees.)

[Exitonly]

w/ SnG's, i just use my # of BB's, it's easier to look at and know right away, and equally as useful.

M comes in to play when you have antes, the bigger than antes (in proportion to the blinds) the more useful M becomes over # of BB's.

I think live events would be where M is more important, as the antes are bigger there in proportion. i.e. typically on Stars the antes are 1/20th the BB. at EPT dublin they were 1/10th the BB... and i've read of ones even bigger.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
w/ SnG's, i just use my # of BB's, it's easier to look at and know right away, and equally as useful.

M comes in to play when you have antes, the bigger than antes (in proportion to the blinds) the more useful M becomes over # of BB's.

I think live events would be where M is more important, as the antes are bigger there in proportion. i.e. typically on Stars the antes are 1/20th the BB. at EPT dublin they were 1/10th the BB... and i've read of ones even bigger.

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Yes, this the biggest reason why just looking at BBs is easiest for SNGs...Also its more complicated than just saying "I have 9BBs, push." or "I have 11 BBs, raise". (But lets not get into that here)

But in an SNG antes will rarely account for much of the preflop pot. For example, on stars, when the antes kick in, there will rarely be more than 125 worth of antes in the middle so its not a huge consideration (although it is relevant). In an MTT there will almost always be 9 or 10 times the ante in the middle so just looking at your # of BBs is not very helpful in showing where you're at, so to speak.

good post.

[maddog2030]

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i don't see how sb+bb=bb

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Perhaps I wasn't clear. My point is that its all relative. Whether you push when you have <10xBB or <6.66M doesn't really matter in a Party SNG, they are representing the same thing. And of course, M is more accurate for cases where the small blind is missing or there are antes.

So saying that M has no value in SNGs really makes no sense. It's simply common convention to use BBs.