Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

[BluffTHIS!]

nicky, the point was already made to you by both MMMMMM and myself in that other thread, that it is not important how you wish to interpret the Quran in the most favorable light to avoid the plain meaning of its words, but how Moslems interpret and act on it. You seem to intentionally be refusing to make this distinction.

[MMMMMM]

Nicky, what I get from your take on those verses is that you're saying they don't necessarily mean the most aggressive or belligerent interpretation. Well, I agree with you on that--which is why I suggested that we look to the life of the Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon Him!} to see in what vein the Messenger himself took or employed those verses. And looking at his long history of aggressive war against the infidels, it appears not to difficult to make a good guess as to how Mohammed (Peace be upon Him!) himself interpreted the Koran.

As to your other point, that some passages are addressed to the Prophet: Muslims are generally instructed to emulate the Prophet (and this actually is something of a parallel with Christianity, as Christians are instructed to emulate Jesus).

Here is one link you may find of interest, as it contains four English translations and the Arabic pronunciations of the Koran as well: http://www.universalunity.net/quran4/009.qmt.html This is from an Islamic website.

[DVaut1]

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I think it is a bit much to cite Quranic verses demonstrating the irredeemable belligerency of Islam, and then when I go to a lot of effort to show how those verses do not necessarily demonstrate the agrression they appear to out of context in specific translations, turn around and say "well look at Mohammed's life instead."

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POTD

Of course, you've misquoted and mischaracterized M; he didn't cite those verses for any particular reason -- apparently he agrees it's a rather pointless exercise to debate anything in the Koran (which is, of course, quite a departure from the "just read the Koran" exhortations that he loves to toss about). Clearly reading and discussing Koranic verses is not all what he wants (gee, I'd have never guessed) -- as he's been (until now) unable to do much but cite the same 5 things over and over: yadda yadda Ibn Warraq moderate Muslims no moderate Islam...blah blah here look at this link on Jihad watch...etc. etc. here are the same 4 Koranic verses that prove Islam is undeniably violent and oppressive...

You must turn your attention away from that, and have a debate about Mohammed's life. Should you become too uppity and un-submissive during that discussion, you will then be directed to chase the next red herring(s), at which point M will eventually give up and claim either "I'll come back to your points later" or "you're just not listening."

Should you disagree altogether too forcefully, you may be fortunate enough to have some threats of moderator intervention thrown your way.

Just wanted to give you an FYI nicky, in case you didn't already know where this was going.

[DVaut1]

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nicky, the point was already made to you by both MMMMMM and myself in that other thread, that it is not important how you wish to interpret the Quran in the most favorable light to avoid the plain meaning of its words, but how Moslems interpret and act on it. You seem to intentionally be refusing to make this distinction.

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And since a vast majority of Muslims (99% +) are not engaged in terrorism, or acts of terrorism, this is a fantastic point. I couldn't agree more. Glad we're on the same side of this now.

[MMMMMM]

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Of course, you've misquoted and mischaracterized M; he didn't cite those verses for any particular reason -- apparently he agrees it's a rather pointless exercise to debate anything in the Koran (which is, of course, quite a departure from the "just read the Koran" exhortations that he loves to toss about). Clearly reading and discussing Koranic verses is not all what he wants (gee, I'd have never guessed) -- as he's been (until now) unable to do much but cite the same 5 things over and over: yadda yadda Ibn Warraq moderate Muslims no moderate Islam...blah blah here look at this link on Jihad watch...etc. etc. here are the same 4 Koranic verses that prove Islam is undeniably violent and oppressive...

You must turn your attention away from that, and have a debate about Mohammed's life.

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Obviously, DVaut1, you have not been following this thread, else you would know that I had raised the example of Mohammed's life in this thread BEFORE Nicky ever entered the discussion.

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Should you become too uppity and un-submissive during that discussion, you will then be directed to chase the next red herring(s), at which point M will eventually give up and claim either "I'll come back to your points later" or "you're just not listening."

Should you disagree altogether too forcefully, you may be fortunate enough to have some threats of moderator intervention thrown your way.

Just wanted to give you an FYI nicky, in case you didn't already know where this was going.

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So, DVaut1: you jump into this thread, get the context wrong, then needlessly proceed to ankle-bite and roundly attack me via sarcasm. Are you possibly this miserable in everyday life, too?

Perhaps we will meet someday, and I will be curious to find out if you are as miserable and deliberately antagonistic in everyday life, as you are on the internet. Somehow, I doubt you are or would be. So, what gives, and why not chill out just a bit?

[tripp0807]

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[ QUOTE ]
nicky, the point was already made to you by both MMMMMM and myself in that other thread, that it is not important how you wish to interpret the Quran in the most favorable light to avoid the plain meaning of its words, but how Moslems interpret and act on it. You seem to intentionally be refusing to make this distinction.

[/ QUOTE ]

And since a vast majority of Muslims (99% +) are not engaged in terrorism, or acts of terrorism, this is a fantastic point. I couldn't agree more. Glad we're on the same side of this now.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Most Muslims aren't terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim.

Your 99%+ figure is deceiving, at best. Just because they aren't engaged in terrorism or acts of terrorism (redundant) doesn't mean anything. I would venture to guess that the amount who support terrorism is significantly more than >1%. Otherwise, it wouldn't still be going on.

Who danced in the streets on 9/11? I saw those pictures of the Palestinians.

Who holds soccer tournaments with teams named after suicide bombers? The Saudis.

I could go on, but I hope you understand how personal non-involvement with terrorist acts does not make one anti-terrorism.

[DVaut1]

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Obviously, DVaut1, you have not been following this thread, else you would know that I had raised the example of Mohammed's life in this thread BEFORE Nicky ever entered the discussion.

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Given that you offer absolutely no answer as to why you blantantly contradict yourself (i.e., "READ THE KORAN" vs. "ignore the Koran, look at Mohammed's life") -- I'll just assume you're more or less incapable of realizing your own incoherence and we can leave it at that.

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So, DVaut1: you jump into this thread,

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I 'jumped' into this thread? Did I need to be invited? Perhaps I'm confused about the nature of this board.

But okay. Fair enough. Next time anyone is involved in posting, and you enter your first post anywhere into the 'middle' of the thread, we'll just label you as 'jumping' into the thread, as you are clearly an uninvited interloper -- as accusing someone of 'jumping' into the thread clearly implies some level of thread ownership.

So just do me a favor, in the future, and in the interest of etiquette -- label which threads are 'yours' and who is allowed post in them; I would just hate to 'jump in needlessly' again.

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get the context wrong,

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I don't think I got the context wrong. How exactly did I get the context wrong?

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then needlessly proceed to ankle-bite and roundly attack me via sarcasm.

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I don't think it was needless.

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Are you possibly this miserable in everyday life, too?

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I certainly feel very content in life -- so no, I'm not very miserable in 'everyday' life.

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Perhaps we will meet someday, and I will be curious to find out if you are as miserable and deliberately antagonistic in everyday life, as you are on the internet. Somehow, I doubt you are or would be. So, what gives, and why not chill out just a bit?

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Let's review using two hypothetical characters: Our first character spends his time advocating the possible carpet bombing of the entire Middle East and believes we're on the verge (or perhaps entrenched in) World War III -- and clearly spends much of his free time concerned about the beliefs and actions of Muslims in a way that borders on pathological.

Meanwhile, the other character says "Let's excerise some caution here, and not be so hasty to condemn others. There are lots of complicated issues to resolve here, and they can't simply be reasoned away using inane explanations about the 'inherent nature' of a religion that is practiced and adhered to by a billion people in perhaps almost as many different ways."

Now, following our review: which one of these characters is leading a tortured and miserable life? Perhaps (and most likely) it's neither. But if one of them were, and we were forced to take wagers on it, where would your money go?

I know where my money is going, and it's not even close.

I like how you spliced that allegedly and the admitted together to make like he admitted to something that he didn't. That's a nice little piece of work right there.

Most terrorists are muslim? Look up the stats for terrorism in the U.S.

[tripp0807]

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Most terrorists are muslim? Look up the stats for terrorism in the U.S.

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Listen:

Don't deliberately mischaracterize what I said. I didn't say that most terrorism in the United States has been committed by Muslims - I said most terrorists are Muslim. So instead of challenging what I didn't say, why don't you respond to what I actually said?