Seat 1 Dealer Issue

[jnalpak]

What is the correct call in this case:
this just happend in a club around the way during a NL game...

hero is SB.
MP+1 raises and its called by MP+2 and BUTTON
HERO raises it up 5x the bet, BB fold and he gets two callers. Dealer grabs the chips and takes HERO's cards into the muck as well.

The cards are well in front of everyones view since it was grabbed by the dealer and HERO yells STOP halfway to the muck. HERO says he knows his two cards DONT MUCK THEM since I RAISED.

Dealer says he cant do anything about it and is about to continue play, but the table collectivly calls for a Floor Manager. As the floor mgr is called over dealer takes the almost mucked cards mutters something under his breath and MIXES them into the bottem of his deck.

Floor manager says there is nothing he can do and gives him back his raise and he loses his SB.

was this correct?
was the dealer a douche or made the correct decision?

thanks

[logistik]

In a casino it is the players responsibility to protect his hand. If there was a chip or something on the hand the dealer would not have taken it.

[varoadstter]

It's unfortunate, but if the player didn't protect his cards there's nothing that can be done about it. Always protect your hand.

[Richter]

Once the cards are released (or touching mucked cards) the hand is rules dead. The ruling is correct because they were at the bottom of the deck by the time the floor ruled.

Having said that, sure the dealer *could have* decided to give them back to you if they were only half way to the muck and it looked inadvertent... but the problem is that if another player complains the hand is going to be ruled dead by the floor anyway. Most dealers will continue them into the muck as this dealer did.

The moral of the story is protect you cards! When I am in seat one (or the dealer at a home game) I am especially careful. People are always mucking there cards into mine.

[Tacjedi]

I think that this was the most equitable ruling possible. Unfortunately because the cards were in the muck they couldn’t be retrieved with 100% accuracy. Even if the player announced what his cards were verifying that the correct cards were pulled this would have an affect on the action of later rounds of betting. I like that the player received his raise back and not the small blind, because as it was described he didn’t muck his cards they were taken from him but he still should have some penalty for not protecting his hand as this is the players responsibility. There is of course a negative impact on the other players as their decisions to call were hopefully influenced by the size of the pot when they called, but the fact that they still have a chance to win the hand makes this impact less then the impact would be on the player w/o cards being forced to leave the bet in. This is the solution that hurts the least collectively.

[FatMan]

The dealer was wrong and should not have mixed the cards into the muck. The floor was right after the dealer mixed the cards into the muck. I would stop tipping the dealer for the rest of the night. And I would keep reminding the dealer every time I won a pot. But I can be an ass at times.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
Dealer grabs the chips and takes HERO's cards into the muck as well.

The cards are well in front of everyones view since it was grabbed by the dealer and HERO yells STOP halfway to the muck. HERO says he knows his two cards DONT MUCK THEM since I RAISED.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad. Unprotected cards, you lose them.

[ QUOTE ]
As the floor mgr is called over dealer takes the almost mucked cards mutters something under his breath and MIXES them into the bottem of his deck.

[/ QUOTE ]

But for this crime, no tips for this dealer for one month.

[ QUOTE ]
Floor manager says there is nothing he can do and gives him back his raise and he loses his SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite generous of the floor manager.

[ QUOTE ]
was the dealer a douche or made the correct decision?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[jnalpak]

the good thing it wasnt me but my buddy. I was the one who pointed out to the dealer he was a dick and i made sure to let him know everytime..

thanks

[jackblack73]

That seems pretty low class to me. As everyone has said, it was your friend's mistake for not protecting his cards.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
The cards are well in front of everyones view since it was grabbed by the dealer and HERO yells STOP halfway to the muck. HERO says he knows his two cards DONT MUCK THEM since I RAISED.

Dealer says he cant do anything about it and is about to continue play, but the table collectivly calls for a Floor Manager. As the floor mgr is called over dealer takes the almost mucked cards mutters something under his breath and MIXES them into the bottem of his deck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Collectively to all who responded “protect you cards”

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Once the player said STOP and the floor was called – the dealer should have done NOTHING until the floor ruled.

Unfortunately because of what the dealer did the only option open to the floor was the one they took – refund the last bet.

But this one is squarely on the dealer – If I was the floor that dealer would have some days off