Flop Play 20-40

Michael Davis · #1 09-10-2005, 02:44 PM

I'm down about $500 and my image is suspect. UTG is a decent player, I think but am not certain he respects me, and he knows the rest of the table is a joke. He does have a tendency to become too passive postflop when faced with raises from the other guys who are generally playing like maniacs. CO is a very loose, somewhat passive player who nonetheless knows enough to get aggressive when he makes a vulnerable hand. His flop and preflop calling ranges are both very wide.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Button calls, Hero raises

-Michael

CardSharpCook · #2 09-10-2005, 02:53 PM

I'm ok with this. I wouldn't expect UTG to fold a mid PP here or on the turn. However, I would expect him to fold many hands that are ahead of you either here or on the turn. CO is likely to be unpaired based on your read, and will likely fold the turn as well. It is a fine play.

SA125 · #3 09-10-2005, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 6.
UTG raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3, 4, Q (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Button calls, Hero raises

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither of them are folding for 1 more, you're OOP with gaboinga and I guess will fire at anything that hits the turn.

Coupled with the hand where you c/r'd the turn and wondered whether to then ch/f the river, I wonder if you're being agro sometimes just for the sake of being agro. Not always having a plan to go with it. It's a leak.

Justin A · #4 09-10-2005, 03:58 PM

Is this a standard preflop call for you?

Michael Davis · #5 09-10-2005, 03:59 PM

"Coupled with the hand where you c/r'd the turn and wondered whether to then ch/f the river, I wonder if you're being agro sometimes just for the sake of being agro. Not always having a plan to go with it. It's a leak."

This hand is totally different than the other hand. The c/r on the turn in the other hand is virtually automatic because he can't possibly have an ace or a jack. The only thing he can have is a draw, and the draw hits on the river.

-Michael

steveyz · #6 09-10-2005, 04:01 PM

this play is bad in a vacuum, but considering that UTG will just call you down and you don't have a solid image yourself, this is definite chip spewage. First of all, fold pre-flop. This is an easy muck against a decent UTG raiser. UTG would have to be a very loose raiser and button a huge fish for me to be able to find a call pre-flop. You have to muck this after the flop.

CardSharpCook · #7 09-10-2005, 04:01 PM

But I think he has it right here. I think that it is unlikely that either of his opponents have paired (based on his reads). I agree that he is unlikely to induce folds here, but it sets up a copule of folds on the turn. This is a nice board to bluff. AND this is the way to do it. AND he's got ten outs (probably).

CardSharpCook · #8 09-10-2005, 04:04 PM

this is 5-handed. The rules are very different SH. I agree that this may be a PF fold, but you do need to open up SH. Mike, don't listen to them. This is a fine hand so long as you bet the turn.

Nigel · #9 09-10-2005, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to muck this after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Muck this? With a possible 10 outs, in a 5 handed game?

SA125 · #10 09-10-2005, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
only thing he can have is a draw, and the draw hits on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't want to hijack this thread because it's a good example of bluff equity and I'm interested if other's opinion are like Cook's for this hand.

I think your position and the amount of cards that can come off on the turn this hand hurt your play. Maybe I'm wrong but I think your best hope is a spade, even though it's a brick for you. If not, you're betting on a lot of air. Which also isn't good. Interesting.

But the guy in the other hand could have had a lot more hands besides a fl draw to bet the turn and river after the flop was ch'd around. It's too late too check nut I believe it was.