Is poker an ethical way to make a living?

[ianlippert]

In another thread I diagreed with a poster about the ethics of making money playing poker. Here is what I had to say:
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is an entertainment industry. An online professional basically owns his own casino, and pays a rake to the site as 'rent'. He is providing a service. The goal of any entertainment business is to capture as much of peoples disposable income as possible.

In many areas this is done by creating a desire for a product so that when the consumer aquires that product it fulfils the desire and makes them happy. When nike gets $100 for a pair of shoes they spent $1 making, they are making a profit by taking advantage of human psychology.


[/ QUOTE ]

So what do ppl think? Does the professional poker player provide anything to society?

[Bodhi]

The professional Poker player provides:

Rake money for the casino so that they can pay their employees.

Action for the hobbyists and others seeking entertainment.

Entertainment for the general public at promotional events.

Some very good poker books for us to read and enjoy.

Honestly, I don't see much difference between a professional poker player and a professional athlete. Both of them make a living doing something totally impractical but which fulfills the desire of the public.

If you want to say that those desires aren't really ours, that they've been implanted by advertising and propaganda industries, then a lot more professions besides professional poker players would be deemed unethical.

[toots]

Fair enough.

Then again, I've always considered professional athletes to be little more than pimples on the butt of society. I s'pose I should say the same about movie stars, but at least they do a decent job of showing themselves to be spoiled superficial twits.

What I find infinitely more interesting is what seems like a nearly universal attraction for males wanting to become professional poker players. (Insert Freud here.)

[darydarling]

I'm not a professional player I only play recreationally, however I am of the opinion I could care less if people think it's ethical or not just based upon the profession.
I live here in Vegas and have the pleasure of knowing a lot of poker players some who are pros and in the groups I hang with I have never met a better class of people.
And for so called reputable businessmen, professions and people...let's take a look at how some of that has worked out.
Enron.
Lincoln Savings and Loan.
Arthur Anderson, And Company.
WorldCom
History is filled with such stories but in the business world those stories are like cockroaches in the light.
If you see 1 there are a 1,000 hiding.
We are in a business where we are not stealing anyone's money, people make a choice to come and play and understand the risks even if they don't understand the game...because they come to "gamble."

[popniklas]

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What I find infinitely more interesting is what seems like a nearly universal attraction for males wanting to become professional poker players. (Insert Freud here.)

[/ QUOTE ]

That is indeed interesting. But I don't think it is very strange. Every other kid wants to be a basketball/hockey/something star. And that dream can last until it becomes evident that the kid in question never will be able to achieve that.

When it comes to poker, it is much easier (compared to, say, basketball) to fool yourself that you are better than you really are. Hence the dream can last a lot longer.

Why do people want to be professional athletes/poker players in the first place? Well... it seems cool to be a professional athlete, to win competitions, be better than other people and prove that to yourself and others etc. Gives a sense of achievement. Obviously one could dig a lot deeper into that, this is just my two cents.

[darydarling]

Oh and to answer your question on whether or not he / she provides anything to society....
There are more ways to provide to society than just what your job is.
More importantly is he taking anything away from society?
And the anwer is just like in all walks of life, professions etc...people dependent and not quite clear cut.

[XChamp]

You forgot something.

Poker is also a learning tool. The game teaches people the nature of risk, probability, statistics, general math, psychology, the importance of discipline and hard work, adn a bunch of other stuff I am forgetting.

I also think it builds character. I am a much more even-tempered person now because of poker. I no longer have fits of rage because of "bad beats" that life deals to me. That used to be a problem for me.

I have learned a tremendous amount because of this game and I know others have as well.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
There are more ways to provide to society than just what your job is.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, this is wrong. If you're not getting paid for it, then society doesn't value it. Obviously, there are some exceptions, but they are few and far between (Also, note that you can get "paid" in things other than money - but again, this is a rare case).

Is poker an ethical way to make a living? Inherently, it's neither ethical nor unethical. It depends on the player.

A more interesting question (which above posters are digging at) is "does a professional poker player contribute to society?" The only meaningful way to answer this is to determine of playing poker contributes to GDP. I'm not convinced either way, but the answer is probably "no." In any case, it doesn't really matter, as any individual poker player's GDP contribution will always be near zero (relatively), because playing poker can never create massive amounts of wealth (e.g. you don't have any product you can export).

[MicroBob]

'Ethical' does not necessarily equal 'providing something to society'.





Drug dealers, prostitutes, hit-men and bet-collectors who threaten to break your thumbs if you don't pay up the $5k you owe for taking the Knicks at +6.5 actually 'provide' something to society....but that doesn't make their jobs ethical.


Defense lawyers are necessary for our legal system. But some of the better ones are REALLY good at getting rapist-murders off on some technicality.
They are obligated to provide the best defense they can...but that doesn't mean they feel good about
successfully keeping the rapist-murderer out of jail.
Ethical is a fine-line here.



Poker is something that i enjoy making my living at.

But i don't pretend that I am actually contributing anything to society by 'providing entertainment' or 'helping the casinos keep their games going' or whatever.

I don't think there is anything terribly unethical about it though. But I do it because I'm decent at it and I enjoy it.
I certainly don't do it with the mind-set of "There's a game somewhere online right now that needs players....and I'm JUST the person to help keep that going. See....I'm providing all this great entertainment value for all the other players who were waiting for me. Aren't I a good samarian??"
That would be ridiculous obviously.

If I could do something more significant and/or helpful to society AND make a reasonable income doing it then I would consider it.

In fact....that is the direction I may take if I build my savings significantly from this whole poker thing.


There are many professions where someone is just basically pushing a pencil around in their office all day and isn't contributing a damn thing to society...and while I think it's a waste of the human mind and spirit to do such a job I don't think there is anything inherently unethical about it even though they don't contribute anything either.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the professional poker player provide anything to society?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure there are thousands of poker players who provide a lot to society, through volunteer work, churches, donating to charity, etc.