20-40 Party, 5-handed KQs

[mike l.]

"textbook check."

i like how you always avoid the real issue. namely, how do you play the rest of the hand after the "textbook check".

[ggbman]

One thing that people haven't addressed in this thread is how this particular hand plays at 20-40. IMO, this is a very easy turn check. Many players in this game peel with crap because they "know you have ace high", but will relish the oppurtunity to take you off JJ when you check here. You often get them to put money in drawing dead. While this ace sucks, given the amount of money in the pot, you have a very showdownable hand. You can check call the turn and river again ALMOST all players here, there are some in the 20 game who wont fire the river barrel without and ace.

If the turn goes check check, bet/call the river. You get bluff raised far to often to bet/fold with this fishy action. Additionally, oftentimes a hand like a medium or small pair might check behind the turn, but make a crying call on the river, whereas they would have just folded the turn if you bet.

Gabe

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
once you check the turn, against all but the most passive players, you want to see a showdown for 0-2 bets total.

definitely call a turn bet because you are ahead here some of the time, plus you often have 5 outs most of the time. the chances of these two things EASILY justify the odds you are getting to call a turn bet.

the river involves a bit more thought. If turn went check/check against a player on the passive side I would value bet more because I feel better about folding to a raise. conversely, a player on the aggressive side you will be more successful inducing a bluff, and you don't feel as good about folding to a raise if you lead. so the river, generally speaking i would lead vs passive and check vs an aggressive, depending on turn action of course. I woudl definitely check the river against everyone if money went in on the turn. Possibly fold vs a passive unimproved. possibly.

the reason there is no "good" or "standard" answer in this situation is because it is a borderline situation, you are good enough to know the correct play i dare say in every situation where "correct" is relatively clear. so i guess im trying to say is, don't sweat it. if you play it moderately correctly, and try to adjust for the times you have a read, that is as good as you can get here i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really nice post.

[SA125]

I don't think the decision in these situations is based on "will he call with a worse hand" etc. It's based on whether or not you want to show it down.

If based on your reads you're comfortable not getting there and folding to a raise, bet.

If you want to show it down, you want to do it for 0-2 bets like Stox said. Betting just leaves you open to maybe paying 3 to get there.

If turn is check/check then river is bet/call.

[ggbman]

I agreed with Stox. I merely pointed out that checking the turn sometimes extracts value from hands that would have folded to turn bet, but now bluff or make a crying river call. Believe, this fact is not insignificant.