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Old 12-25-2005, 02:46 PM
XxGeneralxX XxGeneralxX is offline
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Default Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

Me and all of my buddies have about 3 home game SNG's a week. We have been doing this for a few years now so everyone thinks they are pretty good. Constant banter after hands critiquing every mis-play and so on

The other day we invited a new player to the game. He played very LOOSE PASSIVE and was winning lots of pots. Limping in with 2 gappers UTG etc. He goes on to win the SNG and leaves my house and words begin to fly. "Im never playing with him again" one of our regulars said. Me and my brother asked him why and he responded "He is terrible, I cant play with irrational people like that, you cant win against them"

I found this to be quite interesting. Why does someone feel that playing against bad and irrational players gives them less of a chance to be the winner? What does everyone on 2+2 feel about these players who insist that playing against better players gives them a better chance of winning
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Old 12-25-2005, 02:54 PM
damaniac damaniac is offline
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

This isn't the case. There are a couple of things going on. One, he just happened to hit hands. Everyone, good and bad, will experience that. It can happen over a fairly lengthy period of time too. Another thing could be that you all haven't adjusted properly. Some otherwise decent (not good) players insist on trying to bluff someone that doesn't fold. Obviously bet all your fair to good hands over and over and as much as possible, but just stop bluffing.

But look at it this way. Basically anyone who makes money longterm at poker plays tight and aggressive. Some looser players can still make money, but even they must be aggressive to win. So does it make any sense that a loose passive player is "tough" to beat (ie must therefore make money himself)? No.

And finally, you don't want people to fold crappy hands when you raise with AA or AK or JJ or whatever. You want bad hand to call. If worse hands fold, you can't make money. So the common idea that you can win more in games where people respect your raises is completely false.
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Old 12-25-2005, 05:34 PM
winky51 winky51 is offline
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

Be thankful he is going. Invite more like him. If it was not for lucky days good players couldnt make a living. They count on luck continuously sucking in the bad players to play. They are at war with luck and at the same time embrace it.

Any bad player can win one session.

But what the other guy said is true. You have to play loose passive players differently. Loose passice players do good against constant bluffers. You need to be selectively aggressive and know when to fold.

Invite him more often encourage him. Gimme a table full of fish anyday over a table full of average players.
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Old 12-25-2005, 05:44 PM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

It's not chess. You can't win 100% of the time against bad players. You should win much more than against good players.

You are supposed to lose when someone gets lucky. However, if you try to bluff a calling station, you are getting outplayed. If you pay off a passive player when you only have a bluff-catcher, you are getting outplayed. When people complain about not being able to beat bad players, I assume they don't understand the game and are getting outplayed.
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Old 12-26-2005, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

[ QUOTE ]

What does everyone on 2+2 feel about these players who insist that playing against better players gives them a better chance of winning

[/ QUOTE ]

It always goes right back to the fundamental concept- The player making the least mistakes wins the most money.

The players you cite only want to play against opponents who make certain types of mistakes that they are comfortable with.

Regards,
Ian
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Old 12-26-2005, 05:57 AM
UATrewqaz UATrewqaz is offline
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

It takes a different skill set to beat bad players than it does good players, in a way.

Certain strategies and plays only work if a player is aware enough to see the "danger" that you represent.

Tell him to develop the skills to beat bad players, and then you win alot more from them than anybody.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2005, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

Of course you can win against them. That's why they're called terrible and not good.

However, the subtext might be that your buddy can't play a style of poker that is fun for him to play and still win against these guys. Maybe one of the reason he finds your home SnGs fun is that he can put moves on people and beat players he considers good. If that's the case, you might actually want to consider not bringing the guy back, or at least educating him a little.
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

My reply as a newcomer;that question was one of the first of my thoughts.As an example I can forsee a rookie going all in as soon strategy-percentages-location of button-preflop bets-pot rquity-etc become difficult to analyze.My attitude is to learn all you can before any of these things slow you down.
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:09 AM
ohnonotthat ohnonotthat is offline
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

You nailed it.

There seems to be a huge number of people who only want to play against - or are only comfortable playing against - one type of nitwit.

I never understood it and certainly never agreed with it but there are plenty of them.

Poker pros call them ABC players and refer to them as being unable (or unwilling) to adjust.

My dear friend (and quasi-mentor) calls them "formula players".

Members of this group will rarely die rich but will NEVER die broke.

Mock them if you wish (I frequently do) but do not pity them.

They may represent the triumph of mediocrity but you'll never see any of them at the cardroom running to the ATM to take a cash advance on their Visa and their rent/bills always gets paid on or before the first.

They may earn a living gambling but they are anything but gamblers.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2005, 03:02 AM
ohnonotthat ohnonotthat is offline
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Default Re: Bad Players = Hard to Beat????

[ QUOTE ]
Of course you can win against them. That's why they're called terrible and not good.

However, the subtext might be that your buddy can't play a style of poker that is fun for him to play and still win against these guys. Maybe one of the reason he finds your home SnGs fun is that he can put moves on people and beat players he considers good. If that's the case, you might want to consider not bringing the guy back

.



Which guy - the whiner or the guy [the whiner] can't beat ?
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