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View Poll Results: 5 vs 12
Steve Lyons 29 29.29%
Stu Scott 70 70.71%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 11-16-2005, 01:50 AM
Huskiez Huskiez is offline
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Default WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

Stack sizes were as follows:

Hachem 28,695,000
Dannenmann 22,000,000
Barch 5,650,000

Payouts were $7.5m for first, $4.25m for second, and $2.5m for third.

Not sure exactly what the blinds were.

Dannenmann (Button) raises to 750,000.
Hachem (SB) flat calls with JJ.
Barch (BB) moves all in.
Dannenmann calls.

Note: For the postflop questions, assume Hachem calls.
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2005, 01:56 AM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

i'm cheecking this down unless i hit a set.
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:05 AM
Huskiez Huskiez is offline
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

The reason I made this poll is because when watching, I was really surprised when Hachem just flat called when it came back to him. I thought for sure he would reraise. However, Dannenmann's call may have been a little worrying to him. Or maybe he wanted to maximize his chance of moving up the money ladder.

And I don't really understand this whole business of checking it down. If there was no player all in, I am sure he would have gotten more chips in the pot at some point. Is it really worth it to check it down to move up the ladder? What if Dannenmann hits a free card you gave him and wins this huge pot? It seems this has become the standard play, and it happened several times in this year's WSOP. But to me it seems like a huge mistake, similar to folding a premium hand on the bubble.

Thoughts?
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I made this poll is because when watching, I was really surprised when Hachem just flat called when it came back to him. I thought for sure he would reraise. However, Dannenmann's call may have been a little worrying to him. Or maybe he wanted to maximize his chance of moving up the money ladder.

And I don't really understand this whole business of checking it down. If there was no player all in, I am sure he would have gotten more chips in the pot at some point. Is it really worth it to check it down to move up the ladder? What if Dannenmann hits a free card you gave him and wins this huge pot? It seems this has become the standard play, and it happened several times in this year's WSOP. But to me it seems like a huge mistake, similar to folding a premium hand on the bubble.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

In addition to the fact that playing it passively lets him move up the ladder, playing it aggressively is only good if he 1) gets called and beats the D guy or 2) gets a fold and beats the shorty.
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:18 AM
Arnett23 Arnett23 is offline
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

You check it down because, say if Tex had queens, Hachem bets out at the flop and third guy folds, turn is a 7, Hachem possibly costs himself a few million dollars.
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:32 AM
DDBeast DDBeast is offline
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

[ QUOTE ]
You check it down because, say if Tex had queens, Hachem bets out at the flop and third guy folds, turn is a 7, Hachem possibly costs himself a few million dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]
...and if Tex doesn't have queens he probably cost himself a few million dollars by letting that 7 hit and Dan wins that huge pot. Got to bet.
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:48 AM
Arnett23 Arnett23 is offline
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

No, he doesn't cost himself anything, he gains a couple million because 1 person is eliminated.
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:37 AM
Jman28 Jman28 is offline
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

[ QUOTE ]
i'm cheecking this down unless i hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would push preflop when it got back around to me, and I would bet the flop as it played out. Actually, I'd bet the flop if I were Danneman too. Am I way off here?
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

If you want first prize here I think you need to raise all in preflop. If you let Dannenman win this pot he becomes chip leader. I'm prepared to go all in here, the only bad point being if I'm called and I loose to Dannenman and he looses to Barch (not likely). JJ is a great hand 3 handed and likely to be the best hand here. Dannenman probably wants to check down and take 2nd place. I'm not going to let him. He probably already thinks he has 2nd. He isn't going to want to call an all in unless he has a monster.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2005, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: WSOP Hachem JJ Hand

and if he does have had the monster? then hachem wouldve cost himself 3 mil dollars? bit costly for a hand
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