Chan/Liebert: Wow. How Bad Can They Play?

[Daliman]

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I dont know how much shorter DT was, and I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I must respectfully disagree with you. If he had less than 3x the BB, which I believe he did, then with the structure of your tournament, I believe it correct to play much more conservatively. A miniraise and fold situation is not terrible here, as long as the miniraise is mixed up strong/medium/weak throughout so as not to be keyed on. Yes, a miniraise will likely have good odds to call with, but KJs is so often dominated in those situations, the fold is made safer by not only that, but by getting an actual read on the player. I come across this very situation several times a day at a slightly(...) lower dollar level and find that discretion is often the better part of valor in situation such as this. Also, your raise prevents DT from making a stab at the blinds ith a subpar hand. I know he's Dewey Tomko, but he obviously realizes he can't wait around all day.

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I assume you also feel I shouldn't have picked up the blinds on the other hands where I was successful, as were other players with weaker hands than King-Jack suited. If I played that way, I would have dwindled away long before the K-J hand. King-Jack suited is not a very bad hand four-handed.


The weak play you suggested is exactly the play I like my opponents to make at final tables. It usually is their way of assuring they won't come in first or second. They usually finish fourth or fifth. I have a lopsided number of first and second place finishes, although I have rarely gotten to the final table with the chip lead.

Barry

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Well, as I said before, I'm not saying it was a bad play, I just think there was a better option available. Now, if from a game theory standpoint you mix up raise sizes and fold there, then I'm all for it. I know KJs is not a bad hand 4 handed, and I'm fully aware of the value of stealing the blinds, especially at the level they were at at the time. Again, if it were $$$ or a title that had solid significance to you, maybe you play it differenly, maybe you don't. I'm just saying I feel it could have been done better. Having 340k left 3 handed should DT have gone out that orbit (a distinct possibility is not exactly as disaster, but I guess alot simply depends on the value placed on a ladder bump.

Also, I assure you I play plenty aggressive in proper situations, and often I may make the exact same kind of play you did, with the same results. Obviously, keeping opponents off-blance and scared entails more than just relentless aggression.

TY for being gentle, BTW. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[benfranklin]

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I keep hoping the people on these forums will be able to analyze poker, independent of the results. (Otherwise, they won't be able to digest my book.)

Barry

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Try one of the strategy forums Barry. There are some people that are great at analysis, they just don't post here much.

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That's right. Here at the WPT forum, our minds are made up. Don't confuse us with facts. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Warder]

I don't know about you guys, but I loved it. Seemed completely unedited and really allowed the audience to get a feel for the flow of the game. I for one love seeing all the in between hands that don't matter to gain some insight on actual play.

[JohnG]

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The purpose is not to determine the best player but to put on a show. Large blinds force lots of exciting action.

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Exciting action? How many times can the public watch continuous preflop allin showdowns before it gets boring? Need some variety.

[JohnG]

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Hi Daliman,

How is the raise TO 140 fine? I would move all-in here nearly every time in his spot (MUST win a pot very soon and change the momentum). Yes, 140 looks suspicious, and may cause her to get passive (as I believe it did), but it's just too easy for her to look at a cheap flop with her big stack, and try to flop a pair with some halfway decent hands she may have folded to a bigger raise.

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If raising to 140 makes it easy for her to try and flop a pair and fold if she misses, then I say make it easy as it would be terrible to play that way on the ratios being mentioned. Maybe Chan knows she can make donkey plays like that.