the gangsta, the killer, and the dope dealer [an image consideration]

[Schneids]

Three handed high stakes online interesting set up. Get ready for a lot of open ended questions with a strong focus on image considerations and other factors you may need [the hand itself is real and the descriptions aren't far from the truth].

In one seat is the gangsta. He's raving angry shouting 2pac style. He thinks everyone is catching on him and he's very likely tilting in some forms. The world is out to get him but he isn't just going to sit there and take it. But he is paranoid.

In another seat is the killer. He's been playing slick and smooth lately, and the last 20 minutes has been murdering the game.

In the third seat is the dope dealer. Without a doubt, this guy is high. Or somehow else [censored] up. He's normally an ok player, but tonight is beyond gone and playing awful horrible aggressive poker. Anyway, other than the description [and fitting a third character in since i was listening to the song that is the title], his role is irrelevent in this particular hand... However, as a tidbit, he has been sucking out lots on both players. The gangsta in particular.


So, the killer opens in the SB with 9c7c. The gangsta calls the raise.

Flop [Jd 8c Jc]. The killer [TK] bets, the gangsta [TG] raises, and TK calls. How good/bad is it to not 3 bet against TG?

Turn [Jd 8c Jc][6h]. TK checks, TG bets, and TK calls. How bad is it to not check raise against TG? What are some advantages/disadvantages?

River [Jd 8c Jc 6h][Ad]. TK bets. How good/bad is this bet into TG?

What are the respective advantages and disadvantages to TK's line and what considerations do you think he makes in all of his decisions?

[BreakEvenPlayer]

The hand is played perfectly.

On the flop the Gangsta has a draw that he won't fold or a mediocre made hand that he is pretty sure that he wants to showdown. He's tired of getting run over. If The Killer takes the lead against him here with a flop 3bet out of position it is going to make the hand more difficult when The Gangsta calls or raises the turn.

The turn is similar. A donkbet or checkraise may cause us more trouble because he is fully capable of higher level aggression as well (especially because he might be tilting). Check call is good.

On the river any card 9 and above is good for the Killer. Perfect opportunity to bet at it. Gangster either mucks his draw or small pair like fours or fives and types "FU" in the chatbox, or he calls or raises, no big deal (remember that gangster will most likely 3bet PF with the Axs he plays). This line gives The Killer the best chance to take the pot.

edit: Killer has to make a bet at any river whether he hits his draw or not.

[ToneLoc]

That's an interesting line, exploiting well the cases where TG is on a draw.

A turn C/R followed by a bet on the river on any card achieves the same, but is more expensive. You also risk being C/R by a proper hand. I prefer the checkcall turn/bet the river line...

Happy to see there are other people still listening to Westside Connection, makes me feel better about the whole thing!

[Alobar]

My opinion is that people in the The gangsta's situation, who have think everyone is sucking out on them, and the world is out to get them can NOT be bluffed. They will take their A high or whatever to showdown, just to see what you had, so they can bitch that they got sucked out on again.

[Nate tha' Great]

From our AIM conversation last night:

Schneids: i just got creative (though yuo may have seen the hand already)
Schneids: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...14&fpart=1
Nate: i object to the fact that you're asking people to think in your post
Schneids: well duh i figure it will probably get 2 responses
Schneids: haha

[RunDownHouse]

Move along, Normals, nothing to see here.

[EvanJC]

its unfortunate that "terrorist threats" was so very, very bad. "bow down" is an all time favorite [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[bobbyi]

On the other hand, check-raising him on the turn and then making your hand on the river may put him on total tilt if he has a jack. I don't think it would be paying the extra bets when drawing if you knew for sure that he had a good hand and wouldn't fold it, but if you believe that the decision is borderline in terms of immediate (i.e., on this hand) EV, your tilt equity makes me lean towards check-raising the turn.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, check-raising him on the turn and then making your hand on the river may put him on total tilt if he has a jack. I don't think it would be paying the extra bets when drawing if you knew for sure that he had a good hand and wouldn't fold it, but if you believe that the decision is borderline in terms of immediate (i.e., on this hand) EV, your tilt equity makes me lean towards check-raising the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hes already on tilt, so I dont think that should be a concern.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, check-raising him on the turn and then making your hand on the river may put him on total tilt if he has a jack. I don't think it would be paying the extra bets when drawing if you knew for sure that he had a good hand and wouldn't fold it, but if you believe that the decision is borderline in terms of immediate (i.e., on this hand) EV, your tilt equity makes me lean towards check-raising the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hes already on tilt, so I dont think that should be a concern.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, that's why it is a concern. When someone is in a good mood and playing well and winning, you have almost no tilt equity here. Losing one hand is not usually going to have much effect on him. But when a guy is already sick of getting sucked out on, and you check-raise him and then his flopped trips get rivered again... that's when you push someone over the edge and make htem start playing much worse.