2:1 on a flush draw??

haven't read the thread so apologize if someone said exactly same thing.

yes, you will have that 30% chance of finishing. i did the 30% chance by memory but sounds generally right.

and you pot analysis would be correct if you didn't have 3 more rounds of betting. unfortunately, you could be looking at 5 more small bets (2.5 big bets) with one other caller and that will bring your odds down much closer to 1 to 1...

i would say if you are in loose game with decent number of callers, then 4 flush is almost always worth playing to finish if you are confident your flush would win.

worst is putting all that money and then flush not winning. especially watch in the unlikely scenario where two more of your suit fall and your flush isn't that high. one of the few times in limit where you really have to read your opponents. obviously if there's 3 of them and you have a 9 high flush with 4 on the board, you could be in huge trouble.

but basically in loose games, pots are usually pretty big by the flop.

OK - thanks for that info. Now:

1. In a practical sense, are you looking at positive expectation or +EV when making decisions at the poker table? What is the practical application of calculating EV if it differs from positive/negative expectation?

2. If you don't mind sharing, where did you get the information on calculating EV and its use in poker?

Thanks again.

[Luzion]

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OK - thanks for that info. Now:

1. In a practical sense, are you looking at positive expectation or +EV when making decisions at the poker table? What is the practical application of calculating EV if it differs from positive/negative expectation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you are. You make money when you do something that profits you long term. Im not sure I understand your question; EV is the same thing as positive/negative expectation.

[ QUOTE ]
2. If you don't mind sharing, where did you get the information on calculating EV and its use in poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Common sense can go a long way. You dont need to take a probability course to know intuitively what EV is. Suppose I asked you to play a game of dice with me at $5 a game. If we roll a 6, I pay you $20. If we roll 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 then I keep the $5. Is this profitable aka would this earn you a positive expectation? You can use similar intuitive logic when playing poker. But yes, I have studied some probability.

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You can make a move that negatively affects your EV within a hand and still have positive expectation.

Theoretically, say there were 1000 BB in the pot. And you're heads up and have a 20% shot of winning and have position. Do you bet if your opponent checks? Do you raise if your opponent bets? No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, LetYouDown posted the above quote. If positive/negative expectation are the same as EV, then how is this possible? Furthermore, why is EV seemingly discussed seperately from pos/neg expectation? Why don't people just use one or the other? Thanks

[Luzion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can make a move that negatively affects your EV within a hand and still have positive expectation.

Theoretically, say there were 1000 BB in the pot. And you're heads up and have a 20% shot of winning and have position. Do you bet if your opponent checks? Do you raise if your opponent bets? No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, LetYouDown posted the above quote. If positive/negative expectation are the same as EV, then how is this possible? Furthermore, why is EV seemingly discussed seperately from pos/neg expectation? Why don't people just use one or the other? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

What he actually means is, you can make a mistake in a hand (as in that a move is a mistake because it is immediately -EV) and yet be +EV throughout the hand because you make up for it.

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, LetYouDown posted the above quote. If positive/negative expectation are the same as EV, then how is this possible? Furthermore, why is EV seemingly discussed seperately from pos/neg expectation? Why don't people just use one or the other? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

+EV is shorthand for Positive (+) Expected (E) Value (V). The reason that people generally prefer to use EV is that it provides a more precise approach. There are, for example, situations where both calling and raising are +EV, but one (usually raising) has a higher +EV than the other.

It's also handy to have EV when dealing with implied odds questions.