KK on ragged flop when raised and reraised?

KnickNut3 · #1 04-11-2005, 10:02 PM

Hello. Through about 50 hands both players are sL-N, with VPIPs of ~22 and PFA of 1.5 or so. No better reads because I'm playing 5 tables.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 3-bets, SB folds, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero ????

Someone sure is raising like they've got AA (especially on straightforward party 5/1), and if one of them has it I'm drawing to 2 outs. Should I fold? With it capped preflop and a ragged board, could anyone have anything else better than KK besides AA? Especially with the limp-RR preflop?

Buckmulligan · #2 04-11-2005, 10:04 PM

I would call the flop and check the turn and fold if the action heats up again there. It looks like UTG made a set to me.

aK13 · #3 04-11-2005, 10:11 PM

UTG definitely looks like he's got a set. UTG+1 has an overpair, but I don't think you can pin him on AA. I see KK, QQ, and maybe even JJ playing the same way on this board. I'd call and fold to a raised pot on turn.

KnickNut3 · #4 04-11-2005, 10:17 PM

You guys think it's worth calling 3 more SB to get to the turn? (I'd have to assume I'd face a cap at least half the time, wouldn't I?

scotty34 · #5 04-11-2005, 10:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG definitely looks like he's got a set. UTG+1 has an overpair, but I don't think you can pin him on AA. I see KK, QQ, and maybe even JJ playing the same way on this board. I'd call and fold to a raised pot on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have 'never' seen JJ limp-reraise PF, and may have seen QQ do it once. I am fairly certain this is AA/KK. But then again, there are some pretty big idiots out there.

Firefly · #6 04-11-2005, 10:21 PM

I don't think i'd fold an overpair on the flop without an exceeeeeedingly good read. In fact, i'd probally cap the flop myself. See what the action is on the turn, but i'm probally going to showdown here, unless there the action continues to be heated on the turn.

Redd · #7 04-11-2005, 10:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG definitely looks like he's got a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy has just raised the flop. He could play many hands this way, including a 9 or a middling overpair. He could also have donked a straight or set, but I think it's a bit premature to guarantee this is the case.

I think that UTG+1 could play QQ this way, so lets call it a coin flip you're ahead of him.

If we can discern with some confiedence that we're ahead of UTG, then calling down UTG+1 would likely be +EV. To figure out where we stand against UTG+1, I call the flop for information - if he caps, I consider us sunk and fold the turn UI.

Otherwise, I check the turn, fold if its two bets back to me, or call just one from UTG+1.

ArturiusX · #8 04-11-2005, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG definitely looks like he's got a set. UTG+1 has an overpair, but I don't think you can pin him on AA. I see KK, QQ, and maybe even JJ playing the same way on this board. I'd call and fold to a raised pot on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have 'never' seen JJ limp-reraise PF, and may have seen QQ do it once. I am fairly certain this is AA/KK. But then again, there are some pretty big idiots out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I regularly see limp/rr show me 88, A9s and the like.

AA is something you raise off the bat because its that good a hand.

KnickNut3 · #9 04-11-2005, 10:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But then again, there are some pretty big idiots out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for truth:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 3-bets, SB folds, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Results:
UTG has 4c Ac (high card, ace).
UTG+1 has 9d Ad (one pair, nines).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 10 BB.