10/20 TT Calldown

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yeah, so why not charge them to chase?

i'm not sure where i stand on this hand, so i think i'll just keep throwing in random comments without actually saying what i'd like to do.

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I misread the board, I didnt realize the villain had a gutshot draw in addition to his over outs if he had a hand like AK or AQ. This new information however does not change any of my analysis. I would say this though, knowing that AK or AQ wont fold to a turn raise would make me even less apt to raise the turn. Since the villain wont fold this hand, a turn raise would be viewed as a raise for value, but since the hero is already in a Way behind/moderately ahead situation, raising to get more money in the pot is precisely what the hero should not want to do. Whenever someone is in a Way behind/moderately ahead situion in a HU pot, he will almost always do better by keeping his investment in that pot as low as possible. In this situation, saving money the times he is trailing is more important than making more money the times he is ahead.

[wheelz]

i think you may have convinced me, so i didn't want to explicitly say that he should raise somewhere. how does calling down save you more when you're trailing as opposed to raise/folding the turn though?

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i think you may have convinced me, so i didn't want to explicitly say that he should raise somewhere. how does calling down save you more when you're trailing as opposed to raise/folding the turn though?

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Since we know the villain will not fold his gutshot/overs to a turn raise, calling down has to make more money than raise/folding the turn and checking the river. This is so even if we assume the villain will never 3 bet the turn with a hand the hero is ahead of, thus allowing the hero to always fold correctly. In both cases the hero is investing 2BB, but in the raise the turn example the hero will sometimes not get to see the river since he will fold to a turn 3 bet. So in both scenarios the hero will be investing 2BB but only in the call down scenario will the hero get a chance to spike a set on the river every single time. Thus the hero will win more pots when he calls down.

Calling down can also potentially save the hero money if the villain is capable of 3 betting the turn with a lesser hand than TT. By calling down the hero can save all the pots he wouldve got outplayed off of had he raised/folded the turn.

Through my experience, there have been plenty of times where Villian will cap with AK, 3-bet with AK on the flop and lead the turn in hopes of representing something he does not have. I think it is highly likely that Villian will call down here with AK, so if you play it aggressively like I suggested, you will maximize profit with your tens. I am all about maximizing profit so many times I am aggressive when others might be passive. Against Villian's range of hands, I think aggression is warranted with TT. Just calling is simply wrong.

[shant]

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Through my experience, there have been plenty of times where Villian will cap with AK, 3-bet with AK on the flop and lead the turn in hopes of representing something he does not have. I think it is highly likely that Villian will call down here with AK, so if you play it aggressively like I suggested, you will maximize profit with your tens. I am all about maximizing profit so many times I am aggressive when others might be passive. Against Villian's range of hands, I think aggression is warranted with TT. Just calling is simply wrong.

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What about the times he has JJ-AA and takes the same flop 3-bet and turn line? You still raise a flop AND turn bet? How can calling be "simply wrong" if AK is the only hand you put in his range that we beat?

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Through my experience, there have been plenty of times where Villian will cap with AK, 3-bet with AK on the flop and lead the turn in hopes of representing something he does not have. I think it is highly likely that Villian will call down here with AK, so if you play it aggressively like I suggested, you will maximize profit with your tens. I am all about maximizing profit so many times I am aggressive when others might be passive. Against Villian's range of hands, I think aggression is warranted with TT. Just calling is simply wrong.

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It looks to me that you dont yet understand that there are times when being passive actually makes more money than being aggressive. This is so becuz the passive line will actually save you more money when youre behind then you can possibly make the times you are ahead and you take an aggressive line. IMO you have clearly not thought about this situation long enough. A good example of taking a passive line in a situation similar to this thread is in HPFAP by David Sklansky & Mason Malmuth, page 133-5. I suggest you read it. It may help you in the future.

[jason_t]

You shouldn't raise anywhere and you should call this river.

In spots like this, the guy either sees your 3-bet as an attempt to start a pissing match and he caps in kind or he has a true monster. In either case, you don't want to put yourself in the spot of being pushed off the best hand nor do you want to put in a lot of bets with the second-best hand. It's best to close your eyes and just hit call/call/call.

[obsidian]

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You shouldn't raise anywhere and you should call this river.

In spots like this, the guy either sees your 3-bet as an attempt to start a pissing match and he caps in kind or he has a true monster. In either case, you don't want to put yourself in the spot of being pushed off the best hand nor do you want to put in a lot of bets with the second-best hand. It's best to close your eyes and just hit call/call/call.

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I agree. Plus, in heads up, blind steal situations aggressive tags will occasionally cap with sub par hands (such as any hand they were stealing with) hoping for more fold equity post flop.

[jskills]

I raise the flop here.