Probably know the answer but ... (help needed)

habsfanca11 · #1 12-06-2005, 11:26 PM

Jeapordy style (sort of)
The answer is: (What is) take some time off and study.

The question is: Looking for advice on a next step. I'm stuck at $2/4. I'm not dominating,I'm only a slight winner (<1 BB/100), I play too loose (30 VPIP) and there are leaks in my game. But I play for fun/entertainment and I still really like to play. I'm getting stale and need a challenge/different level. My bankroll keeps fluctuating around 300BB for 3/6. I build it up and then go through a bad streak or tilt some off over the weekend and start all over again and build it up. But 3/6 seems like a rock garden. I get the impression that the general consensus is bypass 3/6 at Party. So where do I go from here? Is there another site where 3/6 is a step up from 2/4 but there is still a good game? Any constructive advice would be appreciated. I'm stuck at 2/4 and probably don't have all I need for the next level but would really like to learn as I go (play). Maybe someone who has been where I'm at can shed some light for me?

Thanks in advance for any who reply. Cheers!

toss · #2 12-06-2005, 11:33 PM

Maybe shorthanded game would be better for you. You get to play more hands and more hands mean more $$ when you're a winning player.

QTip · #3 12-07-2005, 12:24 AM

I'm a bit confused really. You talk about just playing for fun, but then seem like you're looking to get better or something. If you're just bored with the game and looking for something new, why not just try other forms of poker like stud, omaha or whatever. But, to not really beat a smaller level and then wish to move up, that's just looking to give money away. And, if that's what you want to do, that's cool too.

olavfo · #4 12-07-2005, 12:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But 3/6 seems like a rock garden. I get the impression that the general consensus is bypass 3/6 at Party.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not necessarily. Tight does not equal good. Many of the tight players are nothing but fish in TAG's clothing. Semi-tight preflop, bad postflop.

And with a little table selection it's easy to find juicy tables.

habsfanca11 · #5 12-07-2005, 02:43 AM

Always looking to get better. Yes, I can (and probably should) do that at 2/4, but I'm feeling a bit stale. My question was poorly formed admittedly. I'm sort of at a loss as to where to go next without taking a break and really hitting the books. Do you know if Joe Tall is still reviewing hand histories? I guess I'm looking for some alternatives but don't really know what they are. I've got to think there are lots of people who have got stagnant for a stretch and I'm hoping to hear from them as to how they got going/progressing/improving again. Thanks for your reply.

crunchy1 · #6 12-07-2005, 12:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sort of at a loss as to where to go next without taking a break and really hitting the books.

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't need time off and you don't need to hit the books. Just stop playing so many damn hands.

Your problem sounds entirely like a lack of discipline issue. No book is going to teach you how to play tight - and let's be honest; I think you already know what it means to play tight anyways. It's just to much fun to cold-call T9o behind a tight UTG raiser.

If you're looking to release yourself from the stagnant day to day mediocrity - then release yourself with a new found focus. Actually concentrate on what you're doing and WHY. You may be surprised (A) with how much your winrate improves and (B) that poker has become FUN again.

SIDE-NOTE: Of course you should always be willing to read books and study. Simply playing poker everyday and neglecting to put time into thinking about poker away from the table is not going to expediate your improvement as a player. It's just my opinion - that your biggest problem is not going to be solved by simply reading a book.

SnglMaltScotch · #7 12-07-2005, 12:57 PM

If you need a change. Try 1/2 6max for a while. It is great fun and the players are TERRIBLE!! I also think that it will fit your natural style a little better.

habsfanca11 · #8 12-08-2005, 01:07 PM

Thanks for your reply Crunchy. Lack of discipline is one problem, it's why I am able to tilt money away at times, but I am not completely undiscipled. I would guesstimate that my discipline is above average but not where it needs to be obviously. As judged by 2+2 I am probably below average. But don't think that I don't sit down and concentrate and have reasons for my actions, for every single action. I only play 2 tables, so I can better know the table, follow the action and thereby have solid reasons as to why I am doing what I am doing. 10,9o is never a hand to cold call 2 after a tight raiser. That sort of thing never happens. Having said that, I am obviously not making enough correct decision or my win rate would be better and I would feel like I am having more success and playing better.

My take away from this is that it will take more discipline than I have demonstrated to date to get my VPIP down in the low 20s. Yes?

I think I know what playing tight is ... but can't seem to get there

habsfanca11 · #9 12-09-2005, 12:55 PM

Hoping someone smarter than I has some insight I might be missing.

Harv72b · #10 12-09-2005, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it will take more discipline than I have demonstrated to date to get my VPIP down in the low 20s...

...I think I know what playing tight is

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you don't. It's not a VPIP in the low 20s; it's not a VPIP-related question, really, although your VPIP is a good way to guage how tightly you're playing given a large enough hand sample. Unless you are the greatest postflop player evah, playing a good, tight/aggressive game should net you a VPIP in the mid- to high teens, and not low 20s.

You really have to ask yourself, rather than us, what your goal in poker is. If you're just playing to have fun and gamble a bit, then play at whatever limit you want to. Seriously; there's nothing wrong with this approach, so long as you can afford to risk the money in your bankroll. Not everyone has the desire or discipline to learn this game inside and out, put in the hundreds and thousands of hours of study and practice, and constantly strive to play a "perfect" game. If that's not you, cool--do what you enjoy doing.

However, if your goal is to be a good poker player, work your way up the limits, and eventually make mad cash at this game...it's going to take work. Reading the books, analyzing your hands, and finding the discipline to play correctly. Nobody can sum up in three neat little paragraphs everything you need to be a great poker player.

I don't know where you got the idea that the prevailing wisdom is to skip 3/6 and move directly to 5/10, but that's completely wrong and very dangerous for your game. If you don't take anything else away from reading this post, take this: if you are going to be a successful player at higher limits, you must learn how to play at every kind of table and against every kind of opponent. If you (or anyone else) thinks that 5/10 is easier than 3/6, you're in for one hell of a shock. Skipping 3/6 is absolutely terrible advice for anyone who considers a $3000 bankroll to be a meaningful amount of money. It's bad advice for the rest.

So should you move up to 3/6? If you want to consistently win money at poker, then no--not yet. Stay at 2/4 until you work out the kinks in your game and can post a positive win rate over a large amount of hands. Only when you are utterly confident in your ability to beat your current limit should you contemplate moving up.