River Dilemma

[The Gift Of Gab]

No limit. 1-2-2 blinds, 5 to go. Two limpers to me in LMP and I raise to $30 with K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] . CO calls behind me, the blinds fold, and both limpers call. CO has about $700, I have him covered. He seems like a reasonable player - tight and not excessively tricky - though I haven't seen him play many hands.

8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

Checked to me. I bet $100, CO makes it $220 to go, and the limpers fold. I call. Comments?

8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] - A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

Not the best in the deck. I check, CO checks behind. Strange.

River is the amazing and yet terrifying:

8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] - A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] - K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

CO has a little more than $400. Your move? Results soon.


Aside to those of you more experienced than I in no-limit: any advice, relevant or tangential, is appreciated.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

First consideration is what hands that contain a jack would he play the way he did?

Second is would he play AA that way.

I doubt it on the AA. He'd have reraised you BTF.

If he's a reasonable player, he doesn't have J9 and have a str8 on the turn. Would he call your PF raise with KJ or QJ? That might explain his play on the flop and turn, but it seems unlikely he would call PF with that. How about QT? Same deal. QQ? TT? His turn check doesn't make sense if he has a set.

Given the doubt as to what he had, and the fact that there's about $560 in the pot, he can bet $400 and offer you 5.6:4 odds for you to doubt yourself on your three kings. Tough decision. I would probably make a crying call, CRYING.

al

[Wardfish]

His raise on the flop is the key here IMO. Judging by the amount, only $120 on a $320 pot, he wants you in, or is just testing, depending on what you know about him.

Consider also what is consistent with him flat-calling pre-flop eg. will he flat-call with 88 or TT and then raise a small amount when he hits his set ?

Can you rule out J9 or KJ or QT ? Assuming you can, you have to put him on trips or a re-steal (if he thinks you've missed with AK).

Also, what will he put you on? Will he value bet on the end with a set ? My guess is not on that board - too scary.

I would check and be surprised if he bets behind me, but I reckon you'll probably have to pay him off if he does bet.

With these stack sizes, I hate your position. Try and get away with as small a pot as possible.

[The Gift Of Gab]

Because of the fairly large stacks I thought he could have called my raise with many speculative hands. A set, two pair, a pair with a gutshot, or even the flopped straight all seemed possible.

On the river, I thought for a while and strongly considered making a small value bet, as I felt there was a good chance my hand was best given his check on the turn. I decided not to when I couldn't put him on a hand consistent with the action that did not contain a jack. Thankfully, he checked behind on the river and my hand was of course good. He said he had the improbable KQ, which I believed, so I would likely have taken his entire stack if not for the ace on the turn.

Implied odds notwithstanding, I think his preflop call was abysmal if he had KQo; less so with KQs. I lowered his rating a few notches after this one.

I suppose this is closely related to another current thread, but: in his situation, assuming my most likely hand is a big pair or AK, with what hands would you call a $30 raise in position, with stacks of around $750? (And limpers with somewhat smaller stacks who of course may or may not play.) Any pair? Suited/offsuit connectors? If so, how scraggly and gapped?

[mike b.]

WHAT'S WEIRD TO ME IN YOUR ARTICLE IS HE CHECKED THE TURN WHICH WOULD MEAN TO ME MAYBE HE HAD Q-10 OR THE SUITED CONNECTOR WHICH IN THAT CASE THE RIVER JUST GOT YOU, DO YOU BET THE RIVER NOPE I WOULDNT LET HIM GO ALL IN HE'S GOING TO ANYWAY IF HE HAD THE JACK I PUT HIM ON AS LITTLE AS Q-10 OR AT THE MOST PP 10'S ,SUITED CONNECTOR 20% CHANCE HIGHLY DOUBT IT GOOD LUCK,, MIKE B

[Gamepoker]

He is probably holding QJ or QK, but QJ is a more likely candidate because of the kings in your hand and the king on the river.. holding TT, QQ doesnt make sense because of the preflop call and the check on turn, also 88 isnt logical cause he would bet turn. QJ is the best candidate, and that puts you on a very hard decision. although there are quite much money in the pot, he would probably check if he had QK and bet if he had QJ

[Legenda]

Gift,

The decision on this hand should not have been left to the end. When you call him on the flop you have to think why am I calling him? If the question in to catch the K then you clearly should have folded sooner. You really have to decide when your raised the 120usd on the flop whether your playing this had or ditching it. Either way you have to put him on something.

As already pointed out most would have raised AA preflop; especially with two limpers- although the check on the A does make this ominous. I would put him on JJ or maybe 1010 (but this would not explain the check on the A), QJ also looks a possiblity.

Had you put him on QJ, or any hand in which you are winning then the play is to go all in on the flop, if not fold. You only call in this situation to trap. Having played the hand the way you did you are best of checking, and waiting for his move on the river. Realistically you will have to fold to any significant bet, and may take the pot if he checks. A bet at the end is a bluff (obviously) and is probably an unnecessary risk, as if he folds your probably winning anyway....

LG

[tewall]

I was surprised no one mentioned your call on the flop, which I really didn't like, until I got to Legenda's comment. I think he hit the nail on the head.

On the flop you should make a decision as to where you think you are in the hand. If you think you're behind, get out. If you think you're ahead, put the pressure on him. Calling him on the flop is terrible IMO as it gives him a free chance to bust you. Make him pay, or give up. The way you played it, he could have put a move on you on the turn with any card that hit, and it would make things very difficult for you.

As to calling the $30 raise, it would depend on how well I thought I played vs. the raiser. If I thought I could outplay him, I would call with a lot of hands as $30 isn't very much for that stack size. The other factor would be how sure I was of what the $30 raise meant. Against a better player I probably wouldn't get involved (unless I had AA of course).