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#1
09-16-2005, 10:01 AM
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Deep stack implied odds call
.25/.50 NL on Stars.
Have been at this table for about 15 hands, and I have only played one where I doubled my stack from 40 to about 85 with my AK versus AQ. Villian in this hand I have very few stats on. In about 60 hands he has shown to be very aggressive on every street. Villian also seems frustrated as he just lost 30 dollars to a incorrectly called flush draw, where he got all in with 2 pair on the turn against his opponents 8 flush outs. Here's my donk play of the day which I'd like some feedback on whether or not it's warranted or not. Villian is UTG and raises to $3.50. Large, large raise. Folded to me on the button. I call with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] because I know he has a big hand, and due to his tiltage I think i might stack him if I hit. He has $78 I have $85 What does everyone think? Brad 
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#2
09-16-2005, 10:10 AM
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Re: Deep stack implied odds call
Chip spewage if you ask me. Most likely you'll flop nothing and an aggressive villain who's on tilt will be awful hard to bluff. Or second most likely, you'll flop some kind of draw and since he's AG and on tilt AND he just lost to another draw, you can bet you'll pay like hell to see it. Or you could flop bottom two pair, which may or may not win. I'm already assuming you won't be continuing with just a pair of 6's or 3's.
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#4
09-16-2005, 10:25 AM
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Re: Deep stack implied odds call
[ QUOTE ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm already assuming you won't be continuing with just a pair of 6's or 3's. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why not? [/ QUOTE ] I don't get involved in hands with 63s to push in a lot of chips with a pair of sixes or threes, which is probably why I fold this hand to begin with. An early position player raised a huge amount. Let's say a flop comes where you are ahead of all the high card hands like 553. He's going to bet at that flop strongly with whatever he holds and you are probably going to pay a lot of chips to see a showdown when you could be drawing to 2 outs while if you opponent is behind, he is drawing to 6 or likely more....or pay a lot of chips and fold when you realize you are behind. If you flop a pair of sixes or threes with no draw, most like it'll be 2nd or 3rd pair and you are going to be facing some bets from the aggressive player whether it's good or not...maybe it's just me, but I don't like committing a lot of chips with 3rd-4th pair. I don't mind continuing with this hand if it's against a passive player who will probably let me see a cheap showdown, but here we're against an aggressive player who's tilting...not a good situation if you ask me.
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#5
09-16-2005, 10:32 AM
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Re: Deep stack implied odds call
I think 63s is chip spewing. With 65s or 76s I would call this, but i think 63s is just too weak.
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#7
09-16-2005, 10:38 AM
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Re: Deep stack implied odds call
I made a similar play yesterday with 64 suited except I was the aggressor and I also had the chance to steal the blinds. Turned out I flopped two fours and rivered a six and stacked a guy who thought that when he turned a pair of eights he might be able to take me for my entire stack. The guy was a total donk but I got pretty lucky as well.
The key to these types of plays is to be ready to lay it down with anything less than a MONSTER draw, including bottom pair. Too often, villian will be playing something like 88-JJ and you'll be drawing to five outs.
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#8
09-16-2005, 10:39 AM
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Re: Deep stack implied odds call
[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad to get my money in against someone drawing to 6 outs, especially if he is steaming. AK is a great hand to get a tilter's money from. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but AK is a best-case scenario. Many times he will have a pair, and you are drawing to 2 outs. Overall, getting all of your money in the pot after pairing one of your low cards isn't going to be a +EV play.
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#9
09-16-2005, 10:45 AM
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Re: Deep stack implied odds call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm glad to get my money in against someone drawing to 6 outs, especially if he is steaming. AK is a great hand to get a tilter's money from. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but AK is a best-case scenario. Many times he will have a pair, and you are drawing to 2 outs. Overall, getting all of your money in the pot after pairing one of your low cards isn't going to be a +EV play. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed on this point, unless you can be entirely sure that the villian has AK, which is very difficult given the situation. So are we agreed that we are only happy while calling here if we get a 66x, 33x, 63x, or 4s5sx type flop? If so, is a call warranted given the implied odds? Brad
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#10
09-16-2005, 10:48 AM
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Re: Deep stack implied odds call
Its fine if you know your player. If you know you will be able to push him out of the hand on certain boards or if you know he'll never lay down AA when you flop trips, you can call. If you don't know him so well and don't have a clear idea of what sort of board you need to win the pot (either by representing something or by value betting something when he can't fold), you should fold.
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