To isolate or not to isolate, that is the question

[jat850]

2/4 Commerce - 9 players. I am on the Button w/ A8o. Two seats right is a moderate maniac. He'll play 57o, but will check when the board shows a flush. SB, EP1 and MP 1 are all weak tight, SB especially so, didn't re-raise KK when I raised with JJ in an earlier hand. BB was loose and switched between LAP and LAG. He was relatively new to the game.

I have my own weak-tight tendencies and as such, the isolation play seems fraught with the peril of lots of downside risk and unclear upside. Here is an example from last night's play that while it worked out for me, I would like to hear from others about all the reasons behind the isolation play and its application in this hand.

I recognized the opportunity to isolate, but did not pull the trigger. Should I have and why?

Pre-flop: EP1, MP 1, maniac and Hero call. SB completes and BB checks. 6 players (5 sb)

Flop is j8x, suits unimportant. Checked to the maniac who behaves like a good little maniac and bets. I thought about raising right here to isolate. I knew I could get rid of the other 3 players who would not cold call my raise. But I did not pull the trigger because I was afraid the maniac might have the jack and the BB was likely to hang in. Occassionally the maniac did have real cards and maniacs are hard to read as a result.

I call, SB calls, BB folds, EP1 calls and MP1 calls. 5 players (10sb)

Turn: J.

All check to the maniac who does his job and bets. Another shot to isolate, but against possible 3 jacks somewhere, I chicken out and call. SB folds. EP1 calls, and MP1 folds. 3 players (8 bb)

River: small blank, no board pair.

EP1 checks, maniac bets, I look left and see EP1 telegraph a fold. I call.

Maniac shows 87o. I show A8o for a winning kicker. 10bb.

Talk to me about the benefits of isolation. But would that move have shrunk the size of the pot, etc. Tell me why I should have pulled the trigger on the isolation play after the flop or even the turn. Make the cost worth the benefit if you can. Thanks.

[ErrantNight]

you can't isolate behind 3 limpers.

[brettbrettr]

Pre-flop is an easy fold and the flop is an easy raise.

[callmedonnie]

I think you should raise this flop. The way you played it you lucked out that no overcards fell to counterfeit your weak pair. By raising you face the whole field with 2 bets cold, making it unlikely that they will continue hand unless you are already beat, in which case you don't have to commit any more money to pot.

You get HU with the maniac, and middle pair A kicker is going to be the best hand often enough that this play makes $. Basically, the way you played you lucked out that no one else improved. Had you raised to isolate here you knock out a player improving your hand, and bumping your equity.

Aggressive maniacs at tables of weak players is the perfect time for this type of play.

[brettbrettr]

Sup bro.

Fold preflop. Manaic is setting it up perfect for you on the flop, raise it!

[alul]

It's not about isolation, it's about protecting you hand.

[ellipse_87]

[ QUOTE ]
the isolation play seems fraught with the peril of lots of downside risk and unclear upside.

I thought about raising right here to isolate. But I did not pull the trigger because I was afraid the maniac might have the jack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you putting the burden of incomplete information and unclear outcomes entirely upon yourself? Why not spread it around a little bit? Raising the flop gives the weak opponent behind you with JT/J9 a very difficult decision to make. Likewise, you make AQo, KQ, and Q9 very sad that they have to give up their overcards/straight draws. You should take pleasure in making their lives difficult, just like the aggressive player is taking pleasure in making your life difficult.

[ErrantNight]

and i can't read, apparently.

[callmedonnie]

not much. i see you've settled in at work.