commerce hand

[cero_z]

Hi GoG,

Given that you are a somewhat known quantity (he's probably observed that you're a thinking player who will bluff for big money), I don't like your play much on the river.

The flop is an easy check-call, IMO, since you have a hand with good deceptive potential, and you will have a host of bluff-outs on the turn (the diamonds). The turn is not a bad card for you, but unless you thought he was very weak, I wouldn't bluff there either, since he sees all the draws, and won't give you much credit for having called with bottom pair or a set on that flop.

Then, on the river, you bet 1500. This is a good bet against thinking players, who see that it looks like you want to be called. But I don't think it will work here, unless he's the type who'll never commit a lot of chips without a very big hand. Some of your description possibly pegs him this way, while "tight-aggressive," does not.

And, the other problem is, it's just not as much as you could have bet. Good players can go back and forth forever about bet size in spots like this (or when you hit), and I go back and forth myself a lot. These days, I think it's best to face him with that extra 1100, so despite it looking like you want him to fold, he's getting 3800 to 2600, as opposed to 2600 to 1500. Plus, the card is admittedly scary.

All of this, plus the small chance that HE could've been semi-bluffing with a diamond draw--presumably you read him as not likely to have it this time.

All in all, bluffing here can't be a big mistake, but this time I would've passed (check-fold the river), I think.

[Ben]

I like the line.

I'm thinking of how I'd play this if I were your opponent. Even with trips I think I'd be laying this down on the river. The straight and flush draws come home on the river, and your play was consistent with a strong draw.

-Ben

[TStoneMBD]

i also like the play. there is no hand that he can beat that you would do this with other than JcQc. i doubt you would have stuck around the turn if you didnt pick up your flush draw. because reading your hand is near impossible, i doubt hed call with an ace here, hed have to have a house or a nuttyflush to call.

[cornell2005]

i think that the turn play is by far the most interesting of the hand. the ability to create turn/river combo lines is what seperates decent players from good players. when it gets to the river, it is a pretty simple decision of whether to value bet or not.
edited out last sentance, misread

[AJo Go All In]

[ QUOTE ]
when it gets to the river, it is a pretty simple decision of whether to value bet or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think he is betting for value

[cornell2005]

haha i misread the hand. thought he made a striaght on the river. ooooops. posting while playing is dangerous. still would anyone like to comment on my other post?

[turnipmonster]

you're kidding, right? gab is bluffing.

--turnipmonster

[prop]

check calling the flop is weak. once this play is made the whole hand is out of whack. check calling the turn is even weaker.

[DOTTT]

[ QUOTE ]
And, the other problem is, it's just not as much as you could have bet. Good players can go back and forth forever about bet size in spots like this (or when you hit), and I go back and forth myself a lot. These days, I think it's best to face him with that extra 1100, so despite it looking like you want him to fold, he's getting 3800 to 2600, as opposed to 2600 to 1500. Plus, the card is admittedly scary.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. If GOG pushes here he looks like a maniac who just called $700 with one card to come, his opponent will not want to pay him of.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Back to the turn, he is still only laying you around 1-1 on the pot

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be almost impossible. He bet 700 into about 550, laying you 1250:700, or about 1.8:1.

Justin A