lame 2 pair versus agressive LAG

[dfscott]

Typical table -- MP2 is the LAG to end all LAGs. He never folds, plays agressive on the flop, but is generally passive calling down.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="666666">5 folds</font>, dfscott calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 12.75 BB, between Hero and MP2.</font>

[Barry]

I don't see the point of the turn bet after he 3 bets the flop. Why lose more if you are behind?

[Vazh]

Is it just me or is this HH screwed up? On the flop you're acting behind MP2, but on all other streets you're in front of him. I guess I assume you bet the flop and he raised. I'd check/call the turn and river.

[dfscott]

Yeah, not sure what happened there. I actually check/raised the flop.

Here is how it really went:

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the point of the turn bet after he 3 bets the flop. Why lose more if you are behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the fact that he would often play very agressively on the flop, I suspected that he might be going for a free card on the turn. His raise convinced me otherwise.

In fact, this is what I feel is the critical point in the hand -- should I call the raise, knowing I'll likely have to call another bet on the river?

If so, should I call the river unimproved?

[Ralph Wiggum]

I thought you had the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. How is it also there on the flop? I don't know which HH to believe, since they're both screwed up.

[Barry]

I guess that that is my point, against normal folks you can fold to a turn raise, against a LAG it's much harder. So why call a raise if you don't have to? If you decided to show down this hand, which makes sense to me, get there as cheaply as you can.

Also, you could stand to get a free card on the turn when he 3 bets the flop.

[dfscott]

Drat! I was cutting and pasting another hand history from the box and I thought it was the same one (that explains why I had to fix the pot size as well -- that was confusing me).

Anyway, the new action is correct, but now the flop is wrong -- the original flop is correct, so it should be:

Flop: (7.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Wow, just looked and the flops are almost exactly the same, just the ranks are different. That's really weird. I guess this proves that Party is obviously rigged. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess that that is my point, against normal folks you can fold to a turn raise, against a LAG it's much harder. So why call a raise if you don't have to? If you decided to show down this hand, which makes sense to me, get there as cheaply as you can.

Also, you could stand to get a free card on the turn when he 3 bets the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I think I was tilting a bit against this guy. I folded the river to check-raise in an earlier pot before I knew he was so loose, and after seeing him call all the way with junk over and over, I started thinking that maybe he was bluffing at me again.