QJo from the button

[Rico Suave]

On the turn, I was thinking....

Saborion: "His stop 'n go makes me wonder. Either that turn card helped him, in which case he's likely to have made two pair or a straight, or he already had something like two pair." And I really did not want to be 3-bet.

and

Sublime: "but just calling with the best hand sucks."

Well the wuss side won the internal struggle (being down 50bb for the day I am sure contributed to my wussiness) and I called. Check called a river brick (MP3 folds) and UTG+1 turns over J8o and MHIG.

[StellarWind]

When I am thinking about folding a nice hand I worry about whether I should call just in case my opponent is a fruitcake. But I'm making a raise/fold decision so I will assume my opponent is a normal person and do what works most often.

This is a very dangerous board. A fruitcake might by playing some idiot game with AT or something. A normal person usually has a straight, jacks-up, or a set for this type of action. [Don't ask me why people play sets this way, but they do. As often as I get sucked in, maybe it's smarter than it seems.]

I think we are usually behind here and will often be 3-bet. Someone observed that we do have outs but this is a two-way street. They undoubtedly have lots of outs when we are ahead. Also what does MP3 have? None of your outs are even remotely solid. Make a straight and you will often split or even lose. Hit your jack and face a boat. Hit your queen and lose to a king, eight, or set.

Call and hope this works out. With no nut outs this is not a good hand.

[Vazh]

[ QUOTE ]
[Don't ask me why people play sets this way, but they do. As often as I get sucked in, maybe it's smarter than it seems.]

I think we are usually behind here and will often be 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why. I know, because I do it myself sometimes against aggressive opponents. 3-bet baby!

[47outs]

I call.

outs

[47outs]

[ QUOTE ]
His stop 'n go makes me wonder.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stop'n go is a favorite among fish. In an effort to throw you off, don't be fooled by this amature move.


outs

[Saborion]

Well the question was whether to call or raise. If I had a player to act behind me, I'd raise. But in a case like this, being last to act, I'd only call. I'm weak post though, is a raise better against most opponents?

[pstripling]

I just call. He could have have KQ or 78. JT, J9, KJ are also possible. If this player will bet & raise draws you will really have no idea where you are at in the hand if he reraises you. If you get 3 bet, then the river is a brick will you fold to a bet. If so, raising opens you up to this type of move from this player.

[Victor]

Just call here. A raise is too risky as you will surely be 3-bet by a straight and maybe even two pair. Just call here because you want to see the river for cheap. Just call on the river because you want to win the pot and might have the best hand.

That way you put in 1 bet to see your river card rather than 2 or 3 and 2 (total) bets to see showdown (if you dont improve).

[me454555]

Let's look at the type of hand UTG+2 might have. 33, 99, TT, AT, A9, 78, JQ, J8 (maybe), JT, J9, AJ. Aside from aside from the set hands or the 78, I don't think he's going to 3 bet you here. Which means more often then not, he'll call you're raise and you can check behind if you miss your strait netting you the same 2 bb's as if you just called down. You also get to make 1 more bet if you do hit you're strait.

On the times you're 3 bet, you won't call the river unless you hit the strait.

You've got plenty of outs that I think are good and you're Q might be a good out too.

J - 2 outs
Q - 1.5 outs (K or 8 beats you so I think its only good 50% of the time)
K - 2 outs (4 outs to a possible split pot)
8 - 4 outs

Thats about 9.5 outs, plenty to raise the turn and make some cash off of it. MP3 is coming along and he's probobly dead money so even if you are 3 bet, its not the end of the world.

[tolbiny]

You are absolutly correct- i now completely agree that we betting the river is a must if you raise the turn, get called/get checked to.... though i might check a 7.... dont know if that from reading the results