turning good hands into 72o.

[jaydoggie]

I recently read, and reread, reread TPFAP for the past 3 days. This is one of the concepts that Im interested in, but Im not quite understanding.

"beginning no-limit players make a common mistake, putting in fairly big bets or raises before the flop with hands that are very good, but not so good as to welcome a reraise."

referring to AQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or TT.

Ive found myself in situations like this late in multis, or in the mid rounds. blinds 75/150. i open raise top 450. and someone comes back allin, and i hold a hand like 88/99 or AJs.

do i open raise with hands like this? or do i limp? so confused [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

the reason i dont open raise with 72 is because when i get called im in trouble. and becuase i play mostly poor low limit players i do get flat called alot. but later in multis i run into better players and alot of them play back.

maybe the keyword/phrase is "fairly big bets"?

someone help me.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

Ive found myself in situations like this late in multis, or in the mid rounds. blinds 75/150. i open raise top 450. and someone comes back allin, and i hold a hand like 88/99 or AJs.


[/ QUOTE ]

You want to limp those hands in a typical situation. Short-handed or short-stacked, limp turns into push.

eastbay

[Bluff1]

Aq, TT, JJ, and even QQ are the hands the cause people the most amount of trouble. In early position I would fold all those hands except qq and I would probably limp with it. It late position I would raise and if someone reraised me it would determine on my read of the player on what I would do. I also want to say that if I'm short stacked or half of the average stack in a multi way with the blinds you mentioned I would just move in with them. For what its worth this is the same reason why I almost always limp in with ak in early positions because if someone reraises you all in it's just to hard to know what move to make most of the time. But again short or half of average stack in multis I just move in with it.

[AJo Go All In]

folding JJ to no raise and open-limping with QQ are, in most cases, poor plays.

[Bluff1]

Again at stars I will muck jj from an ep all day long. There is little vaule when someone will almost always raise you and you can't move in with it early. Again later in the game its an all in hand. But early in a trny jj, tt, and Aq have little value if no value from an ep.

[TheGrifter]

JJ certainly has value from EP. It's certainly worth a limp early in a tourney when the blinds are tiny, and a raise later when everyone tightens up and an UTG raise will grab the blinds.

I actually disagree with you about the assertion that players at stars don't push with crap, there are plenty of hyper-aggresive players in stars multi's at every buy in. However, even if you are correct and you know people aren't likely to come over the top of the a raise with less than QQ-AA then you love JJ in EP.

Especially when the blinds become large I'd toss out a 3 or 4x BB raise with JJ everytime and win a lot of chips when JJ is the best hand out there. (Pretty damn often)

As for open limping with QQ I almost never do, and if I do it is with the intention of limp re-raising if there is a player at the table who has been raising too many pots.

As for AQ in EP I tend to agree with you. But AQ is much much weaker than JJ. I play AQ for an open raise in LP and muck it in EP unless shortstacked in tournies. The exception to this may be if I am in a rebuy or low buy in tourney where people drastically overplay Ax (yes, on stars)

[Bluff1]

I can understand you reason for limping early when the blinds are small but I still would muck jj. I'm not saying everyone at stars is a two plus twoer all I'm saying is calling reraises with jj, qq, aq at stars is a good way to go broke.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Aq, TT, JJ, and even QQ are the hands the cause people the most amount of trouble. In early position I would fold all those hands except qq and I would probably limp with it. It late position I would raise and if someone reraised me it would determine on my read of the player on what I would do. I also want to say that if I'm short stacked or half of the average stack in a multi way with the blinds you mentioned I would just move in with them. For what its worth this is the same reason why I almost always limp in with ak in early positions because if someone reraises you all in it's just to hard to know what move to make most of the time. But again short or half of average stack in multis I just move in with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must play with players that are 10x better than the ones I play with in PP $30 SnGs.

I'll call a re-raise all-in with JJ and be way ahead 5 times out of 6. Throwing away AQ, even to a re-raise, in these games is like burning hundred dollar bills. You're going to see Ax when you play back way more often than AK.

eastbay

[Bluff1]

This is the difference in where you play most of your games east and where I play mine. At stars if you call an all in reraise with jj or aq you will be dead most of the time at stars. I agree at party I have no fear and am hyper aggersive with such hands but again at stars playing the hands the way you mentioned will break you very quickly.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
This is the difference in where you play most of your games east and where I play mine. At stars if you call an all in reraise with jj or aq you will be dead most of the time at stars. I agree at party I have no fear and am hyper aggersive with such hands but again at stars playing the hands the way you mentioned will break you very quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt it. I've definitely played in games where what you say makes a lot of sense. I just wonder why people select tougher games intentionally.

But, go ahead and stay over there. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

eastbay