Is a disregard for money an essential trait to become better?

(Decided to post this in here as it is more relevant in here)

I have recently been reading the High Stakes No-Limit forum and something that strikes me is their openness about their losses that can sometimes go into the 20k range. I found this openness interesting because as a small stakes player, it is not unusual for a friend to tell me he left a table up $20 when I just saw him drop a buy in.

Now, while it is understandable that we want to all be seen as winners, reason dictates that someone has to be loser. I find that as I progress as a poker player one of the most important things I have done is to stop caring about the money entirely. It was in a sudden moment of clarity that I acquired this and it has transformed my game. I now have no qualms about telling people if I won or lost and do not feel any shame in admitting so.

What I am trying to ask here is if a disregard for money should be sought or whether one needs to understand the value of money and use this to stop playing in games that are probably unprofitable?

[Sciolist]

I think these are different things here: Lack of respect for money, and honesty about your game. The latter is much, much more important - at least, it's vital to be honest with YOURSELF over your game. You can tell everyone else whatever you want, but you have to know how you're playing - lots of people just ignore that one large pot when they lost a buyin, and pretend they're still up.

Lack of respect for money can be both a good and a bad thing. It means that you don't fear losing - you're happy to commit your chips if you think you have an edge. It also makes it harder to keep bankroll disciplines.

I suspect that most good players have both traits, and combine it with an iron will - discipline and self honesty are the top two skills on my list of poker qualities.

[Xhad]

When I first started playing poker, I was working a 9/5 making just above minimum wage. I would get my paycheck, deposit was was necessary for food and bills, then take the rest of it and go play $3/$6 limit or MTTs (as to why not micros online, because I didn't have a computer back then and decided I would buy one if I won a tournament, which is what I did).

For like the first couple weeks I was a little susceptible to tilt but it wasn't long before I was thinking of the chips on the table as points.

With that in mind, I think my general poverty-driven respect for money was a help, not a hindrance. Otherwise it would have been way too easy for me to gamble myself broke; I have never said "I'm not calling that bet because I can't afford the money," but I have said "I am not going to the ATM because that's my rent."

Not wanting to admit to your friends that you had a losing night is not respect for money. It's a sign of a sheltered ego. I know what it's like to think "Only 12 more hours before I get paid so I can eat," but I've never deluded myself about my performance at poker; I have a notebook with a record of the amount won or lost every day since I started playing, and that was almost exactly a year ago.

[SlowStroke]

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Is a disregard for money an essential trait to become better?

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Some would say yes. I would say no.

I would say that it is important not to confuse chips (real or virtual) with money. The fact that a $1 chip costs $1 makes this difficult. And this is unfortunate.

A healthy respect for money when deciding what games and limits to play is a very good thing.

But once you pick a game and a buy in, try to remember that you are playing a game with chips (or units or points or tokens).

If someone who respects money confuses chips with money, it will cloud their decision making. Unfortunately, the higher the limits, the greater this distortion will be. I think this is what prevents many good players from moving up into limits that they could win consistently at.

[eisanm]

I had a problem in the beginning when I was on a small bankroll and unsure about my poker play. My fear of losing the money was large and it made me play worse.

After a while and getting used to poker and winning quite a bit, I no longer think the same way. I respect money in real life, but when I play poker it's another thing.

You need a sufficient bankroll so that you need not worry about the actual value of the money relative to the limit you're playing. You also must not confuse or mix up your bankroll with any other funds.

What I have in my bankroll is solely for poker. Whatever I cash out is no longer part of my bankroll. If I were to lose my bankroll from one day to the next, hell yes it would hurt, but it would not affect my economical situation.

I don't know exactly where I'm going with this..

Oh, one more thing. After playing a while and getting used to the swings, it also hurts a lot less. Once you realise it's the long run that counts, you can more easily not get mentally frustrated by downswings. Just the same, it can be important not to get too overly happy about upswings, since that could cause you to go on "reverse tilt" or something, playing worse because of winning a lot.

I've had this feeling sometimes, that I'm invincible because I was running good, that I can outplay my opponents with most hands, etc, and start playing much looser, and needless to say I quickly lost it back.'

[mosquito]

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What I am trying to ask here is if a disregard for money should be sought or whether one needs to understand the value of money and use this to stop playing in games that are probably unprofitable?

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There are two things here.

1. Stop playing in games that are unprofitable.

This 'should' have nothing to do with disregard for money. Keep in mind there are some games you need to play, that are not profitable at the time, to gain the skills you need to move up. Disregard for money can help with that.

2. Disregard for money will not make you a better player in and of itself, but there is a need for the disregard during the play of the hand. The right play is the right play, or you made a bad decision to be in the game.

Disregard will, OTOH, make it much easier to improve your game provided you learn the lessons along the way. If you fail to pay attention to the lessons, disregard will only make you broke.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

No, it definitely isn't I regard money very highly.

[Songwind]

I think the essential trait is the ability to think of big bets and small bets as just bets without letting the size (or lack thereof) of the bets affect your play. If you can't divorce yourself from it you might end up freezing when the money gets too big, or playing like an idiot if the money doesn't mean much to you.

I think some people do that by cultivating a disdain for money, but I'm sure that others just cultivate mental self-discipline.

[A_Junglen]

Fossilman once said in this forum that he viewed his chips as points in a game, where he would try to win the most points. Then once leaving the table he would still go to a fast food restaurant.

Losses matter less when your bankroll is relatively huge.

A disregard for money will only reduce your ability to manage your bankroll.