TPTK and Gettin Donk bet

Fo10 · #1 07-30-2005, 12:56 PM

Donk is 63/1/.74 over 109 hands

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero...?

DrewOnTilt · #2 07-30-2005, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Donk is 63/1/.74 over 109 hands

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero...?

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Hero Folds. Even though this guy is a donk, his AF of 0.74 indicates that he does not bet with nothing. This pot is small. Consider that you will likely have to call a river bet as well; effectively, you are getting only 3:1 pot odds.

A larger pot might swing this decision to a call, but unless you have a specific read that this guy is a habitual bluffer, then this is an easy fold.

Bodhi · #3 07-30-2005, 01:03 PM

I almost want to fold with that kind of read, but sometimes the villain will only have a weak Ace or some strange holding. For that reason you should still raise to protect your hand and gain value for the % of times you are still ahead. Depending on the river I may bet again.

Bodhi · #4 07-30-2005, 01:04 PM

Do we want to be seen folding here to an out of place donk-bet?

mr pink · #5 07-30-2005, 01:10 PM

let's see, if he's bluffing the flush/straight he's probably not going to call a raise.

if he does have the flush/straight, he's probably going to 3-bet.

if he's bluffing, he'll probably continue the bluff on the river if you just call the turn, netting you 2 bbs.

if he's got the goods, you'll have to fold to the 3-bet which might be a bluff so you'll occassionally be folding the best hand, netting a loss of 2 bbs or 4 bbs if you decided to call down the 3-bet and river bet.

of course, there is the weak ace that is planning on calling down a raise and is just using the scary board to maybe get you to fold a better hand, so you lose a bet when you don't raise theses guys but i think these are rarer than the times you are staring at either a bluff or a made hand.

all in all, i don't see much value in raising these spots. just calling down is fine.

27offsooot · #6 07-30-2005, 01:12 PM

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Hero Folds.

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I think folding here is pretty bad. .74 AF is not that low with that VPIP, Donks love to bluff scare cards by leading, whereas they usually c/r if they've made there hand. I would raise the turn w/o a heart here (and call with one), fold to a three bet and bet the river if he just calls.

mr pink · #7 07-30-2005, 01:15 PM

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I would raise the turn w/o a heart here (and call with one), fold to a three bet and bet the river if he just calls.

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i feel like folding tptk sucks when you can get to sd for the same price on the off chance he's gaybetting with a weaker ace.

27offsooot · #8 07-30-2005, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
let's see, if he's bluffing the flush/straight he's probably not going to call a raise.

if he does have the flush/straight, he's probably going to 3-bet.

if he's bluffing, he'll probably continue the bluff on the river if you just call the turn, netting you 2 bbs.

if he's got the goods, you'll have to fold to the 3-bet which might be a bluff so you'll occassionally be folding the best hand, netting a loss of 2 bbs or 4 bbs if you decided to call down the 3-bet and river bet.

of course, there is the weak ace that is planning on calling down a raise and is just using the scary board to maybe get you to fold a better hand, so you lose a bet when you don't raise theses guys but i think these are rarer than the times you are staring at either a bluff or a made hand.

all in all, i don't see much value in raising these spots. just calling down is fine.

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Good post. The only point i disagree on is that u will only very, very rarely be bluff three bet so i think that u can safely fold. Also, I like raising b/c if he does have some retarded heart hand with no pair, he will call a raise, but may c/f the river. If he has an ace, he will be calling the whole way, so u net an extra bb with a raise.

DrewOnTilt · #9 07-30-2005, 01:16 PM

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Do we want to be seen folding here to an out of place donk-bet?

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No, I hate folding to donkbets, but am I the only one here who thinks that this pot is just too small? If so, maybe this is a leak in my own damn game.

mr pink · #10 07-30-2005, 01:17 PM

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if he does have some retarded heart hand with no pair, he will call a raise, but may c/f the river.

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he'll probably bluff at the river with it too if you just call the turn.