playing mid suited connectors or one gappers in nl

[bankrobber42]

I am to the point where I almost never play hands like 89s, 8Ts, 9To unless I am in late position and can limp in. Usually I miss the flop completely and if I am lucky enough to hit part of the flop someone will make so expensive to continue on that it is not worth calling to draw out. Also if I due manage to flop a straight or flush, all of the other players will be careful and pot will not be big.

Last night when I was playing I had 7s 8s and was in early position. There is usually one or two people raising before the flop so I mucked the hand. On this particular hand the flop was not raised. The flop came back 4s 6s 8h no one had raised the turn. The turn card was 5s two players moved all in. The river was an 8d. The other two players had an A high flush and the other had 5 full of 8. I missed a really big opportunity to triple up and wondering if I am playing these type of hands correctly? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[SpaceAce]

You're kidding, right? You're wondering if you should be playing crappy suited connectors up front in an aggressive no limit game because you would have made a straight flush on that hand? One in a zillion shots come in approximately one in a zillion times. You could play every 87s you get in early position from now until you die and never see that same result. Play the way you would play if you hadn't even watched that hand.

SpaceAce

[schwza]

i would not play T9o in any position, except maybe if i could open-raise from the cut-off or button.

in general, i agree that you should limp hands like 68s from late position and fold them up front.

[danstjohn]

I think it just depends on the people who you are playing with. I play 2-5 NL and the variety of play day to day can differ greatly. If there are not many raises before flops I will play suited connectors down to 78 in late position. It also depends on your style of play. If you are a rock and only wait for premium flops for you to put any money into the pot then playing suited connectors that low will probably cause you to lose more money than you will win.

However if you tend to have good reads on certain players and are not afraid to fire some money into the pot with a small piece of the flop or no piece of the flop then it could be productive while you wait for premium starting hands as long as you do not get carried away.

I sat and watched my friend who is generally not a great player, he bluffs quite a bit and does not do it very well, he dumped $350 into a pot out of position on a stone cold bluff and the person called him on it. He limped in, bet on the flop, on the turn, and on the river and was called everytime. You need to have self control and know when your bluff is going to be beat. I personally believe that reraising a bet is superior than betting out of position when the flop misses you and you think the person you are heads up with shows weakness.

[tewall]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally believe that reraising a bet is superior than betting out of position when the flop misses you and you think the person you are heads up with shows weakness.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming "reraising" means "check raise". IOW you think check-raising is better than leading out if you want to make a play for a pot that you've missed.

Assuming you're betting or raising the pot, you're laying twice as much on a bluff raise than a bluff bet. So you think it's more than twice as likely to be successful?

[limon]

nt

[danstjohn]

Check raising to me has a higher success rate in winning the pot if you player you are up against is weak. If you have no read on the player then you will likely not be able to pull it off.

[tewall]

Certainly check-raising has a higher success rate, but the question is, does is it have twice the success rate? It has to be more than twice as successful as just leading out to be a more profitable option.

[Burno]

[ QUOTE ]
Certainly check-raising has a higher success rate, but the question is, does is it have twice the success rate? It has to be more than twice as successful as just leading out to be a more profitable option.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it needs to be twice as profitable since you will get paid off much more often on your legitimate checkraises by playing in this manner.

[TStoneMBD]

how did this post become the checkraising thread?

anyway, lately i too am questioning alot of my preflop standards and one of them concerns suited connectors. you obviously should not be playing these hands up front especially if people are raising pots. these hands have very little equity and if you cannot stand to a raise you are simply losing money in the long haul.

recently, i was watching a friend who has been playing professionally for 18 years. the game was pretty loosepassive which makes suited connectors all that much more valuable. he was sitting in late position about MP3 or so, 3 people limped in and he folded 68s. I couldn't believe this because I would never fold such a hand in a game like this and questioned him about it. he gets easily insulted when i start questioning plays he makes, but im not trying to insult him, im simply trying to learn from him. nevertheless, he didnt go into depth with his logic, but he said that you go broke playing these hands.

i had to think about all of this for a while and came to the conclusion that these onegappers arent necessarily going to make you go broke, but its that hes an ultrarock and adjusts his playstyle accordingly. im a much more aggressive player, so playing hands like this should prove +ev to me in the long run, but -ev to him. he has to play a trap game because whenever he bets everyone folds. despite this somewhat odd strategy he does very well when the game is soft.

another problem with these small suited connectors is that if your game is really loose and people are limping in with all sorts of garbage, it is entirely easy for you to lose to flush over flushes. playing these hands really is context dependant and you should adjust your starting requirements accordingly as you should with every hand.

a 3rd problem with these hands is that if your table is filled with weak players, you simply arent going to maximize your profits with these hands when you are lucky enough to hit. many weak players shut down after the flush card comes on the river no matter how strong they are or how well you disguised your hand.