And now for something completely different

[Rosencrantz1]

I've been playing the micros for a few months, working first with WLLH and then, since it came out, GSIH.

I play on Pokerroom (I'm a Mac user) and the tables at the micros are loose and generally passive. Most of the time 6-7 people take the flop and usually 3-4 stick around to the showdown. Typical no-fold'em hold 'em.

Last night, however, I had to double-check to make sure I hadn't accidentally put myself at a much higher limit table. It was like I was sitting with 9 people who spend all their time on the twoplustwo forums. At most only 3-4 people were seeing the flop (often only 2), and there was a not insignificant amount of the table folding to a PFR. When players did go to showdown, they almost always had respectable hands (or had checked from the BB and the flop had hit them). None of the usual garbage I was used to seeing people show down.

I tried to stick to my game (I've been working off Ed's starting hand charts in GSIH and trying to basically be tight-aggressive).

My question is this: Ed says, in his book (and I've seen it repeated here) that other players don't play like I do and that I shouldn't assume they've hit the flop when they bet, etc. etc. But what do you do when the players DO play like you do?

I stayed at the table, even though I ended the session down a few bucks, because it was such an interesting change of pace from the guys who jam the pot with QTo. I'm not saying I would always want to play at a table like that -- it seems -EV -- but it certainly made me think about my game.

Thoughts?

[Nick C]

I think playing in a tougher game on occasion is probably a good learning experience. (And it's better if this said tougher game takes place at your usual limit instead of at a higher one you're not bankrolled for. I say this because about a year ago I took a shot at 5/10 full, with an insufficient roll, and had a tough night.)

I play at 3/6 now, and I certainly don't actively seek out a bunch of TAGs to play against. But as you move up in limits (if that's your goal), you're going to run into more and more of them, whether you want to or not, and I don't think getting a little experience playing against tighter players will hurt you any.

It's not the quickest way to build your bankroll, but I don't see much harm in playing in the kind of game you describe, on occasion.

[Rosencrantz1]

Yeah, I don't think there's any harm in it -- I really quite enjoyed it.

The more important question, I guess, is what do I need to adjust to my game when I realize that if I raise my AK PF, I'm getting MAYBE 2 to come along with me, and they both have hands...?

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I don't think there's any harm in it -- I really quite enjoyed it.

The more important question, I guess, is what do I need to adjust to my game when I realize that if I raise my AK PF, I'm getting MAYBE 2 to come along with me, and they both have hands...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising AK is still good. (And remember, if you just have one or two opponents and the flop missed you, well, it may not have hit anyone else either. Of course, you could be up against a pocket pair, though.)

Semi-bluffing and bluffing become a bigger part of the game too. And your legitimate hands will hold up more often. However, you generally won't get paid off as well with your big hands, when they do hold up.

In tighter games, blind stealing and defense become more important, too. Also, if there are a couple of looser players at the table, isolation plays start becoming something to consider. (I start raising lighter at tighter tables sometimes, when in position.)

I don't know. The game does change when you don't always have to show down the best hand to win the pot. But the game does also become more difficult, in a lot of ways.

[Iq75]

Wow,

what limit are you playing?

Your description sounded like a typical game in 0.25 - 0.50 in prima (avarage 35 - 45 % see the flop).

[Ruhr]

Rosencrantz,

I, too, am a Mac user (primarily) and I play at Pokerroom. I play at the 0.25/0.50 and 0.50/1.00 levels.

Generally, the Pokerroom 0.25/0.50 is ridiculously loose, 5-7 people seeing the river. The 50c/1 is a tighter, and at that level, I sometimes do get tables that have a character very much like you described.

In the table listings, Pokerroom shows a stat, % that see flop I believe. I'm not sure how they arrive at that number (how many hands? averaged over what time interval?) but I find it somewhat helpful in selecting a game.

At 0.25/0.50, I like to select values above 60% and sure enough, I encounter very loose players who like to see their Ace rag or Q4o to the river, hoping to catch.

At 0.50/1, the values do tighten up, but if you can find anything between 40%-50% (with the high 40s being optimal) in my experience you've gotten a good table. Tighter, but a few of them still play trash.

[pryor15]

Pokerroom can get like that sometimes. part of it's just a fluke of people who know what they're doing just happening to be at the same table. i used to think it was a trend and started getting scared, but 5 minutes ago someone just 3-bet me w/ 82s. trend over.

[scotty34]

If there are better tables around, move there.

[Fantam]

You play solid poker LOL. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Now to try for a more helpful answer. If you really were playing against a table full of tight agressive thinking opponents, then you would have to adjust your tactics to try to fool them.

This would usually include semi-bluffing,bluffing,check-raising and slowplaying more. You would try to play less predictably against these better thinking opponents and also try to mix your game up by occassionally making unusual bets. For example limping UTG with something like 87(s), so that when you hit your hand on the flop it would be less obvious.

However, while the micro-tables do sometimes attract good players looking to build up their bankrolls, there are usually enough loose players at the same tables to still make it worthwhile playing.

I think the key is to try to be as observant of your opponents as possible, to make it easier to be able to decide how best to play against them.

[Rosencrantz1]

[ QUOTE ]
i used to think it was a trend and started getting scared, but 5 minutes ago someone just 3-bet me w/ 82s. trend over.

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe...that sounds like the Pokerroom I know and love.

The downside, of course, with that many loose players is all the crappy suckouts you get handed. I'm still finding it long-term +EV, of course, but it is frustrating to wait and wait and wait for Aces, hit a set on the flop only to get sucked out by the wheel that the guy who called 3 cold PF with 45o just hit on the river.

Anyway, thanks for the input, all. It seems unlikely that I'll accidentally hit another table of poker players like that on the PR .25/.50 tables, but I suppose you never know.