Curtains: folding JJ after a call+raise

[microbet]

I'm generally down with folding, but there are maniacs; even in the $215s.

[caretaker1]

Unless MP1 were unusually loose, fold.

[AbelM]

No way i'd fold this. I think you guys are overestimating the players at the 215's.

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No way i'd fold this. I think you guys are overestimating the players at the 215's.

[/ QUOTE ]
Their skill level has nothing to do with this. Put them on a range of 99+, AQ+, KQ+ and it's still a clear fold, for the reasons stated above. What are you suggesting?

[johnnybeef]

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No way i'd fold this. I think you guys are overestimating the players at the 215's.

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Given the stack size, I like taking a flop here.

[citanul]

i wanted to stop in and say both:

merry christmas to everyone out there (soon to be a happy channukah as well)

and

basically everything in this thread so far is both nonsensical and stupid

have a good one.

c

merry christmas to you too

and

don't be a chonch

[citanul]

what's a chonch?

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what's a chonch?

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Somebody who interjects comments without explaining them [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what's a chonch?

[/ QUOTE ]
Somebody who interjects comments without explaining them [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, i guess i'm sometimes one of those thing.

<font color="white">i believe my original comment about the quality of this thread is pretty self explanitory, however, for a touch of explination, continue. note that this thread has people saying you should call, saying you should fold, and saying you should push. all that's missing is some moron who wants a miniraise. this is, in part, what inspires a great strategy and theory thread: a hand where even strong players have wide varieties of opinion. however, everyone in this thread, i believe without looking back for confirmation at this point, besides you, has been guilty of being a chonch. those who say to call, raise or fold just say to do that, with the deepest explains being "you're overestimating your competition," "because of your stack." that's pretty terrible if what people are interested in is why. if you want to say "becuase of your stack" you sort of have to say what it is about your stack that inspires you to say this. etc. i'm going to hold off giving any of my own analysis of this spot beyond "there are certainly players at the 200s, and likely at other stakes, against whom this fold is mandatory because you're just straight crushed." that is not to say that this fold is in general, off the bat a mandatory fold for that reason against the average player at any stake, just what i said originally. folding might be right in nearly all cases, but i'll save that for if/when i come back to do more responding in this thread. </font>

c<font color="white">honch</font>